Joint Authority as a temporary Brexit solution for NI?



livingstone

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No - genuine joint authority would arguably affect the principle of consent. Unclear how it would even work, and how it would get around the issues in the backstop/border.
 

SideysGhost

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Nah. Two can play at the "run down the clock" game.

And right now Ireland north and south will play along with whatever Brexit border nonsense is necessary temporarily, in order to run down the clock to the inevitable majority in the north in favour of a UI.

Which is well under a decade away in any and all scenarios.

Which could be under two months away, actually.
 

jmcc

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No - genuine joint authority would arguably affect the principle of consent. Unclear how it would even work, and how it would get around the issues in the backstop/border.
If you think it is impossible then it may be a highly possible solution. The aim is to create a legal situation in which NI could be both in and out of the UK in terms of the EU. Since it would be an agreement between Ireland and the UK, the EU would have to recognise such an international treaty.
 

livingstone

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If you think it is impossible then it may be a highly possible solution. The aim is to create a legal situation in which NI could be both in and out of the UK in terms of the EU. Since it would be an agreement between Ireland and the UK, the EU would have to recognise such an international treaty.
If you think it is possible, then feel free to explain how it would work in practice.

Who exercises executive authority?

What EU law applies in NI?

Who enforces it?
 

jmcc

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And right now Ireland north and south will play along with whatever Brexit border nonsense is necessary temporarily, in order to run down the clock to the inevitable majority in the north in favour of a UI.
The proposed JA is temporary. A border poll would be the endgame. This solution would help people in NI and it also creates a path to a UI in that it may provide a timeframe for a border poll.
 

Sync

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The proposed JA is temporary. A border poll would be the endgame. This solution would help people in NI and it also creates a path to a UI in that it may provide a timeframe for a border poll.
Jesus. Great. An endgame solution which the DUP and UUP are going to be against and so will seek to avoid, one the UK will be against. Giving the Irish govt (which has trouble minding itself) and Westminster (Which has trouble minding itself) another million or so people to manage. Such a stupid idea. Irredeemable. It shows an utter ignorance of the GFA, of the makeup of the parties in NI and the competence of the UK and Irish govts.

Aside from that I love it.
 

cricket

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Just noticed on RTE that the leader of the UUP (a small party up North) has been calling for Direct Rule to be imposed on NI.
UUP in call for direct rule for NI if no-deal Brexit

Could Joint Authority (Ireland and UK) over NI be a solution (the majority of voters in NI voted against Brexit) in NI in that NI would simultaneously be in and out of the UK?
Well, at least you're consistent.
Crackers !
 

livingstone

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The proposed JA is temporary. A border poll would be the endgame. This solution would help people in NI and it also creates a path to a UI in that it may provide a timeframe for a border poll.
Which is precisely it would likely not pass a referendum in Northern Ireland, and doing it without the consent of the people of NI would likely be a breach of the GFA.

Aside from all of that, key questions remain unanswered. Do you envisage a scenario where Northern Ireland would have the same obligations in respect of EU law as Ireland? In other words, the Treaties would apply to NI as they do now. But not to the rest of the UK.

Meaning what? Let's say NI courts are considering a case that concerns an aspect of EU law. It goes to the UK Supreme Court. Can (or must) the UK Supreme Court make a preliminary reference to the CJEU? If Northern Ireland fails to transpose an directive, who gets infracted by the Commission? Who pays any fine?
 

jmcc

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Jesus. Great. An endgame solution which the DUP and UUP are going to be against
They'll be against anything and this way they get to keep some voters.

and so will seek to avoid, one the UK will be against.
The UK really isn't quite sure what it is for or against. The JA solution could solve a lot of problems.
 

jmcc

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Well, at least you're consistent.
Crackers !
They can include a special proviso for Labour party members like yourself to enable you to join the British Labour party and contest elections in NI and the UK. Isn't that what your leader, Brendan Who, wants?
 

Herr Rommel

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Nah. Two can play at the "run down the clock" game.

And right now Ireland north and south will play along with whatever Brexit border nonsense is necessary temporarily, in order to run down the clock to the inevitable majority in the north in favour of a UI.

Which is well under a decade away in any and all scenarios.

Which could be under two months away, actually.
Play the waiting game until unionist have so little numbers that their views mean nothing and they are only second class citizens in a full republic
 

livingstone

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They'll be against anything and this way they get to keep some voters.

The UK really isn't quite sure what it is for or against. The JA solution could solve a lot of problems.
So much so that thus far you've been unable to explain how it would work or what problems it would actually solve and how.
 

jmcc

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So much so that thus far you've been unable to explain how it would work or what problems it would actually solve and how.
Well you always seemed to be a little Englander moreso than Irish. The JA solution would mean that NI would not be as badly hit by Brexit as the rest of the UK. Having a legal JA in NI may also solve the Customs Union issues in that the Ireland is a member of the Customs Union and thus NI would be covered by Ireland's membership.
 

jmcc

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Play the waiting game until unionist have so little numbers that their views mean nothing and they are only second class citizens in a full republic
Sidey's hardly a United Irishman in this respect.
 

Sync

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They'll be against anything and this way they get to keep some voters.
Which voters? Which voters for the DUP and the UUP are going to stick around? I've even bolded the key letter in the acronyms for you.

The UK really isn't quite sure what it is for or against. The JA solution could solve a lot of problems.
All the major parties are united on the UK not being disrupted in exactly the way you're describing.

I'm not sure you could point NI out on a map.
 

livingstone

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Well you always seemed to be a little Englander moreso than Irish. The JA solution would mean that NI would not be as badly hit by Brexit as the rest of the UK. Having a legal JA in NI may also solve the Customs Union issues in that the Ireland is a member of the Customs Union and thus NI would be covered by Ireland's membership.
But if the UK were willing to accept a solution that involved having NI in the EU Customs Territory and customs checks between GB and NI, it would have simply accepted the EU's initial backstop proposal. Alternatively it can adopt the current draft the backstop to avoid those GB to NI customs checks.

This ill defined proposal (can it be called that when you've avoided all questions about how it would work) doesn't offer any advantages over the backstop proposals - and carries the notable downside that it would not pass in a referendum, and doing it without a referendum would breach the GFA.
 


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