Journalism & Media - The Most Dangerous Civilian Profession?

RasherHash

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Trolls enjoy their participation in such a powerful institution that influences public opinion.

Democratic institutions have to deal with this but it will not be easy since politicians are just as likely to be corrupted by power as media people.
Presumably establishment hacks like Owed call people 'trolls' when they disagree with their pov.
 


RasherHash

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We tend to almost canonise media as some sort of watch-dog on politicians and society. But the Mainstream media themselves are no saints as shown by the High Court appointing inspectors to INM. To coin a phrase of an Irish politician in the 1990s, high moral ground is a lonely place. To coin a phrase of Vincent Browne about the PDs (mentioned in the book "Breaking the Mould"), the press has 'self righteous pomposity with egg on its face'.
Exactly, there's a reason the RTEers are paid so much, bc they are the voice of the establishment, relaying government propaganda verbatim.
 

benroe

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That's not what I heard, I read recently that an Alex Jones type internet 'loon' _ pro'ly "antisemitic" to boot - dredged this one up and it got taken up eventually by the msm.

The problem with the msm is they would be afraid to upset the establishment - and Epstein was their man - and lose position, so wouldn't 'go there' in the way a 'net loon' would.
Cernovitch claims the only reason MSM got interested was because they thought they could do harm to Trump.
 

benroe

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So one of the main pushers of the Pizzagate fraud and White Genocide conspiracy theories is a hero. Dubious. I fail to see where Cernovitch took any risks, but if he did a bit, then fair play to him.
Yourself and the main stream media all pushed the "Russiagate" conspiracy, you quote your sources and make spurious connections all day long.
 

owedtojoy

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We tend to almost canonise media as some sort of watch-dog on politicians and society. But the Mainstream media themselves are no saints as shown by the High Court appointing inspectors to INM. To coin a phrase of an Irish politician in the 1990s, high moral ground is a lonely place. To coin a phrase of Vincent Browne about the PDs (mentioned in the book "Breaking the Mould"), the press has 'self righteous pomposity with egg on its face'.
We do not expect anyone to be saints. None of the murdered people in the OP were saints, just people who elected to do a risky and dangerous speaking truth to power.

Judging the press against an impossibly high standard, higher than we judge ourselves or higher than we judge politicians who attack the press, is just a ploy to undermine free speech and critical enquiry.

Witness Donald Trump's claim that there should not be free speech to criticise him. And I am sure Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-Un and Chairman Xi agree as regards their own countries.


Better a scurrilous bunch of muck-rakers than a bunch of vacuous praise-singers for the politicans who would like to rule over us. The ideal is still the balanced debate of the Open Society.
 

owedtojoy

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Yourself and the main stream media all pushed the "Russiagate" conspiracy, you quote your sources and make spurious connections all day long.
Only one source you need mate, and here it is. It is called the Mueller Report.


Take it to the other thread, and stop trying to derail this one.
 

benroe

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Only one source you need mate, and here it is. It is called the Mueller Report.


Take it to the other thread, and stop trying to derail this one.
The report that took years, thousands of witnesses and was overseen by an enemy of its target and concluded that there was no collusion, that report?
And how is my showing that the media you trust is every bit as suspect as any internet troll, derailing the thread?
 

Baron von Biffo

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According to Reporters Without Borders, 80 journalist, non-professional journalists, or media workers. died in 2018 - up from 50 in 2017, and the 4th highest total since 1995.

Among those who died in 2017 and 2018:

  • Jamal Khashoggi, Saudi dissident, reporter, columnist on Washington Post, tortured and dismembered in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul by a hit squad under the orders of the Saudi Crown Prince.
  • Daphne Caruana Galizia, Maltese reporter and anti-corruption activist, killed by a car bomb (2017).
  • Jan Kuciak, Slovak reporter and investigator of political-organised-crime links, shot dead with his girlfriend.
  • Viktoria Marinova, Bulgarian reported, raped and murdered, case unsolved.
  • Javier Valdez Cardenas, Mexican reporter on drug trafficking and organised crime, shot dead by unidentified gunmen (2017)
  • Miroslava Breach, Mexican reporter on organised crime, killed by a gunman while bringing her son to school (2017). A note left identified her as a "snitch".
  • Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith, Wendi Winters, all killed in a mass shooting at the Maryland Capital Gazette by a disgruntled litigant against the newspaper.
  • Maksim Borodin, Russia, reporter on crime & Russian mercenaries in Syria, mysteriously fell out his apartment window.
  • Denis Suvorov (stabbed), Sergei Grachyov (found dead), Russian reporters in the city of Nizhi Novgorod.

The Middle East is the most dangerous place for journalism or media reporting, and the rise since 2003, the invasion of Iraq and the spread of violent Islamic extremism.

[video=youtube;MGMOcQZBoD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=47&v=MGMOcQZBoD0[/video]

2ntlaqh.jpg

Average reporter deaths per year since 1995 has been 51, rising to 71 over the last decade. The number of journalists detained worldwide at the end of the year – 348 – is up from 326 at this time last year. As in 2017, more than half of the world’s imprisoned journalists are being held in just five countries: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey.



"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4", as George Orwell said, "From that, all else follows"

There is a bit more to freedom of speech than Milo Yiannopoulos losing his Twitter feed, or Alex Jones getting banned from You Tube. People are dying for this right, even though they may be unlikely, unintended or unlovable martyrs. An imperfect but free press is vastly superior to an unfree one.

RSF's 2018 round-up of deadly attacks and abuses against journalists - figures up in all categories | RSF
To answer the question posed in the title - No, journalism isn't the most dangerous civilian profession.

There were 80 deaths of journalist and associated occupations worldwide last year but in Ireland alone there were 17 farm deaths. Looked at like that, journalism is very safe.
 

owedtojoy

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To answer the question posed in the title - No, journalism isn't the most dangerous civilian profession.

There were 80 deaths of journalist and associated occupations worldwide last year but in Ireland alone there were 17 farm deaths. Looked at like that, journalism is very safe.
How many of the world's people's live rural lives associated with agriculture?, Maybe less than half, as the human race has gone urban on a massive scale. But it must be 30% at least - over 2 billion people.

Ar there 2 billion journalists in the world? Doubt it.

You will have to do better than that, if you want to show that the murder of journalists is not worth bothering about.
 

Baron von Biffo

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It is clear that most of the murdering and imprisonment of journalists is done in authoritarian regimes like Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

And unfortunately, reporters even in democratic countries are being branded "enemies of the people".
Freedom of speech entails having the freedom to say that reporters can be enemies of the people.
 

Baron von Biffo

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We tend to almost canonise media as some sort of watch-dog on politicians and society. But the Mainstream media themselves are no saints as shown by the High Court appointing inspectors to INM. To coin a phrase of an Irish politician in the 1990s, high moral ground is a lonely place. To coin a phrase of Vincent Browne about the PDs (mentioned in the book "Breaking the Mould"), the press has 'self righteous pomposity with egg on its face'.
Journalists tend to see themselves as heroic figures defending the public but the reality is they're just employees in a business whose function is to make money for that business.

I can't remember where I came across it but a wonderful definition of a journalist is "someone who writes about those prejudices of his proprietor that won't offend the advertisers".
 

Baron von Biffo

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How many of the world's people's live rural lives associated with agriculture?, Maybe less than half, as the human race has gone urban on a massive scale. But it must be 30% at least - over 2 billion people.

Ar there 2 billion journalists in the world? Doubt it.

You will have to do better than that, if you want to show that the murder of journalists is not worth bothering about.
That's the sort of thing I was thinking about when I said in my subsequent post that it would be good if journalists developed some respect for the facts.

I didn't say or infer or hint or make any other reference that could reasonably be interpreted as saying that the murder of journalists was not worth bothering about.
 

benroe

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That's the sort of thing I was thinking about when I said in my subsequent post that it would be good if journalists developed some respect for the facts.

I didn't say or infer or hint or make any other reference that could reasonably be interpreted as saying that the murder of journalists was not worth bothering about.
Thats just it, if you attempt to add any nuance to the mad SJW outrage then you are literally Hitler.
The most dangerous profession is still deep sea fishing, when I started the RNLI were running a "One a day" campaign highlighting the fact that 350-400 fishermen lost their lives every year in the british isles, its nowhere near as bad these days, but still no walk in the park.
 

owedtojoy

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Freedom of speech entails having the freedom to say that reporters can be enemies of the people.
Not if you are inciting the murder of journalists, while giving yourself "plausible deniability".

You will deny you are, but colour me skeptical.
 

owedtojoy

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That's the sort of thing I was thinking about when I said in my subsequent post that it would be good if journalists developed some respect for the facts.

I didn't say or infer or hint or make any other reference that could reasonably be interpreted as saying that the murder of journalists was not worth bothering about.
Can you go through the list in the OP and tell us which reporter "had no respect for the facts"?

By facts I mean "verifiable truths".

The whole tone of your posts is that "reporters", without qualification, deserve punishment because they do not share your opinions (which are not facts, by the way, they are just your opinions).
 

Baron von Biffo

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Not if you are inciting the murder of journalists, while giving yourself "plausible deniability".

You will deny you are, but colour me skeptical.
Incitement to murder is different to expressing an opinion on the conduct of an individual or class of persons.

Journalists frequently criticise members of other professions, often in quite strident terms. That doesn't mean that they are inciting people to murder the targets of their opprobrium.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Can you go through the list in the OP and tell us which reporter "had no respect for the facts"?

By facts I mean "verifiable truths".
I know nothing about any of those named in the OP.

The whole tone of your posts is that "reporters", without qualification, deserve punishment because they do not share your opinions (which are not facts, by the way, they are just your opinions).
I suggest that you're tone deaf.
 

owedtojoy

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I know nothing about any of those named in the OP.



I suggest that you're tone deaf.
Sounds to me like you would not kill any journalists, or incite anyone else to do it, but you will not over-strive to keep them alive either, like seeking justice or retribution on their murderers.

And you cannot cite a single example of journalist or journalists, or what they did in particular to incite your ire.?

I am sure there are may be more bad journalists than good ones, but that is also true of drivers, musicians and other novelists. Besides, "good" or "bad" journalism is a matter of taste - I cannot abide The Sun or (in general) any Rupert Murdoch owned paper.
 

benroe

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Sounds to me like you would not kill any journalists, or incite anyone else to do it, but you will not over-strive to keep them alive either, like seeking justice or retribution on their murderers.

And you cannot cite a single example of journalist or journalists, or what they did in particular to incite your ire.?

I am sure there are may be more bad journalists than good ones, but that is also true of drivers, musicians and other novelists. Besides, "good" or "bad" journalism is a matter of taste - I cannot abide The Sun or (in general) any Rupert Murdoch owned paper.
I hope you condemned Andy Gno's beating.
 


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