Journalism & Media - The Most Dangerous Civilian Profession?

shiel

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Sounds to me like you would not kill any journalists, or incite anyone else to do it, but you will not over-strive to keep them alive either, like seeking justice or retribution on their murderers.

And you cannot cite a single example of journalist or journalists, or what they did in particular to incite your ire.?

I am sure there are may be more bad journalists than good ones, but that is also true of drivers, musicians and other novelists. Besides, "good" or "bad" journalism is a matter of taste - I cannot abide The Sun or (in general) any Rupert Murdoch owned paper.

But we have to keep remembering that media including internet media is the most powerful institution in a democracy.

It determines public opinion.

Brexit happened in 2016 because London media spent previous decades in anti-EU propaganda.

Johnson is going to become PM in the UK because of media support.

This country was bankrupt in the decade before 2009 because the decisions that brought it about were supported by the Irish media.

The people whose decisions bankrupt the country still have the support of the Irish media and are going to the next government in this country because of continued media support.
 


Baron von Biffo

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Sounds to me like you would not kill any journalists, or incite anyone else to do it, but you will not over-strive to keep them alive either, like seeking justice or retribution on their murderers.

And you cannot cite a single example of journalist or journalists, or what they did in particular to incite your ire.?

I am sure there are may be more bad journalists than good ones, but that is also true of drivers, musicians and other novelists. Besides, "good" or "bad" journalism is a matter of taste - I cannot abide The Sun or (in general) any Rupert Murdoch owned paper.
All this is a product of your rich imagination and has absolutely no basis in anything I posted.

My first post merely answered the question posed in the thread title in the negative and made no judgement whatsoever on journalists.

The second post was in response to someone who said that journalists should stop telling the truth and I expressed a desire to see them start telling it. That expresses a disdain for the profession but in no way either incites or condones murder or any other violence towards them.

I can't cite specific references to a journalist lying because, although they loudly and frequently decry the defamation laws, journalists are very quick to lash out the writs when they smell a few quid in it for themselves.

We live in a very small country so most of us will have seen at least one story about which we have considerable knowledge reported nationally. The first time I was in that situation I was genuinely shocked at how inaccurate the reports were and how little interest there appeared to be in establishing the facts. What shocked me even more was that one journalist won an award for their coverage of the story.

Some years later my company was tangentially involved in a matter covered by a media organ. Reading the story it was immediately clear that the journalist had spoken to someone in the company but it was also clear that he was unable to grasp what he'd been told. And it wasn't that the errors of fact in that case were in furtherance of an agenda, it was just a matter of someone out of his depth trying to relay information he didn't understand.

As a result of those and other cases, I've developed a deep scepticism of what the media report. It's my sincere belief - and I've seen nothing to undermine it - that most journalists would publish a story, knowing it to be untrue, exaggerated or distorted, if it suited their purposes.
 

owedtojoy

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All this is a product of your rich imagination and has absolutely no basis in anything I posted.

My first post merely answered the question posed in the thread title in the negative and made no judgement whatsoever on journalists.

The second post was in response to someone who said that journalists should stop telling the truth and I expressed a desire to see them start telling it. That expresses a disdain for the profession but in no way either incites or condones murder or any other violence towards them.

I can't cite specific references to a journalist lying because, although they loudly and frequently decry the defamation laws, journalists are very quick to lash out the writs when they smell a few quid in it for themselves.

We live in a very small country so most of us will have seen at least one story about which we have considerable knowledge reported nationally. The first time I was in that situation I was genuinely shocked at how inaccurate the reports were and how little interest there appeared to be in establishing the facts. What shocked me even more was that one journalist won an award for their coverage of the story.

Some years later my company was tangentially involved in a matter covered by a media organ. Reading the story it was immediately clear that the journalist had spoken to someone in the company but it was also clear that he was unable to grasp what he'd been told. And it wasn't that the errors of fact in that case were in furtherance of an agenda, it was just a matter of someone out of his depth trying to relay information he didn't understand.

As a result of those and other cases, I've developed a deep scepticism of what the media report. It's my sincere belief - and I've seen nothing to undermine it - that most journalists would publish a story, knowing it to be untrue, exaggerated or distorted, if it suited their purposes.
You are on the wrong thread.

This one is about the murder of journalists for reporting the truth about people in power. For every four crap journalists in the world, there is probably one excellent one, and they are the ones getting murdered.
 

Baron von Biffo

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You are on the wrong thread.

This one is about the murder of journalists for reporting the truth about people in power. For every four crap journalists in the world, there is probably one excellent one, and they are the ones getting murdered.
We got to here because you were unhappy with my answer to the question in the OP. Since then I've just been answering your posts which accused me of all sorts of malicious intent.
 

owedtojoy

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We got to here because you were unhappy with my answer to the question in the OP. Since then I've just been answering your posts which accused me of all sorts of malicious intent.
I now accept that your contributions were not malicious, but completely banal and irrelevant.
 
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silverharp

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oops



A journalist traveled to Ilhan Omar’s homeland of Somalia to challenge stereotypes and prove the country was “beautiful,” only to end up being killed by terrorists.

Before President Trump’s tweetstorm in which he encouraged Omar to go back and fix her own country, Somali-Canadian journalist Hodan Nalayeh was trying to do precisely that.

Nalayeh returned to the country of her birth to tell “uplifting” stories about Somalia, according to the Washington Post.

The journalist became well known for her relentlessly positive tweets about Somalia. Just one week ago, she lauded the “beauty” of the place.

On Friday last week, Nalayeh was killed in that very same town when al-Shabab militants stormed the Asasey Hotel in Kismayo.
 

owedtojoy

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Well that's one way to deal with inconvenient facts.
That not all journalists are saints and that some reporters lie is a banal contribution, and irrelevant to a discussion about the murder of journalists for investigating issues that powerful people would rather stayed hidden.



On August 31, two unidentified men entered a barbershop that Aguilar visited every Saturday in the town of La Entrada in Copán, western Honduras, and shot the journalist, Cablemar TV news director Carlos Chinchilla told CPJ via phone.
 

owedtojoy

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This is no surprise as such blatant murders such as these would not be attempted unless the people who ordered the hit believed themselves to be invulnerable, or to have powerful friends in high places. Russia ia a good example.

The murder of Jan Kuciak in Slovakia (see the OP) is also raising serious issues of state complicity.

Slovak protesters denounce government response to double murder

Mr Kuciak uncovered links between powerful politicians – including associates of Slovakia’s then prime minister Robert Fico – and alleged Slovak criminals and an Italian businessman with suspected ties to the Calabrian Mafia.
Mr Fico, two interior ministers and the national police chief all resigned in the wake of the killings, which triggered the biggest protests seen in Slovak towns and cities since the 1989 Velvet Revolution in communist Czechoslovakia.
 

Ardillaun

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Its hard to tell which countries have the highest per capita risk for journalists and under some regimes the media has been so well trained to stay on message that extreme violence is usually unnecessary. Russia still seems to produce more than its fair share of heroes who risk imprisonment and death to shine some light upon the corruption there.
 

Sweet Darling

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According to Reporters Without Borders, 80 journalist, non-professional journalists, or media workers. died in 2018 - up from 50 in 2017, and the 4th highest total since 1995.

Among those who died in 2017 and 2018:

  • Jamal Khashoggi, Saudi dissident, reporter, columnist on Washington Post, tortured and dismembered in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul by a hit squad under the orders of the Saudi Crown Prince.
  • Daphne Caruana Galizia, Maltese reporter and anti-corruption activist, killed by a car bomb (2017).
  • Jan Kuciak, Slovak reporter and investigator of political-organised-crime links, shot dead with his girlfriend.
  • Viktoria Marinova, Bulgarian reported, raped and murdered, case unsolved.
  • Javier Valdez Cardenas, Mexican reporter on drug trafficking and organised crime, shot dead by unidentified gunmen (2017)
  • Miroslava Breach, Mexican reporter on organised crime, killed by a gunman while bringing her son to school (2017). A note left identified her as a "snitch".
  • Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith, Wendi Winters, all killed in a mass shooting at the Maryland Capital Gazette by a disgruntled litigant against the newspaper.
  • Maksim Borodin, Russia, reporter on crime & Russian mercenaries in Syria, mysteriously fell out his apartment window.
  • Denis Suvorov (stabbed), Sergei Grachyov (found dead), Russian reporters in the city of Nizhi Novgorod.

The Middle East is the most dangerous place for journalism or media reporting, and the rise since 2003, the invasion of Iraq and the spread of violent Islamic extremism.

[video=youtube;MGMOcQZBoD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=47&v=MGMOcQZBoD0[/video]

View attachment 19068

Average reporter deaths per year since 1995 has been 51, rising to 71 over the last decade. The number of journalists detained worldwide at the end of the year – 348 – is up from 326 at this time last year. As in 2017, more than half of the world’s imprisoned journalists are being held in just five countries: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey.



"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4", as George Orwell said, "From that, all else follows"

There is a bit more to freedom of speech than Milo Yiannopoulos losing his Twitter feed, or Alex Jones getting banned from You Tube. People are dying for this right, even though they may be unlikely, unintended or unlovable martyrs. An imperfect but free press is vastly superior to an unfree one.

RSF's 2018 round-up of deadly attacks and abuses against journalists - figures up in all categories | RSF
Fake news
 

owedtojoy

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We tend to almost canonise media as some sort of watch-dog on politicians and society. But the Mainstream media themselves are no saints as shown by the High Court appointing inspectors to INM. To coin a phrase of an Irish politician in the 1990s, high moral ground is a lonely place. To coin a phrase of Vincent Browne about the PDs (mentioned in the book "Breaking the Mould"), the press has 'self righteous pomposity with egg on its face'.
In the OP I said

An imperfect but free press is vastly superior to an unfree one.
Where have I claimed that the Media are "saints" or beyond reproach?

But imperfect mean accepting self righteous pomposity, subject to the normal legal restraints. Because the alternative is an unfree (therefore imperfect by definition) press and the self-righteous pomposity of murderous tyrants, which is subject to no restraint at all.
 

Dame_Enda

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In the OP I said



Where have I claimed that the Media are "saints" or beyond reproach?

But imperfect mean accepting self righteous pomposity, subject to the normal legal restraints. Because the alternative is an unfree (therefore imperfect by definition) press and the self-righteous pomposity of murderous tyrants, which is subject to no restraint at all.
The 2020 Edelman poll apparently shows low trust in Irish media, as well as government, NGOs and business. I'm going to have a read of it now.

 

owedtojoy

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The Edelman poll apparently shows low trust in Irish media. I'm going to have a read of it now.
Irrelevant.

Do you believe in a free press or not? I do not feel any confidence that you do.

A free press is one where free speech is guaranteed, with broad constraints on publishing libel, state secrets etc.

Trust in the media, and regulation of it (if any) is a totally different issue.
 

Dame_Enda

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Irrelevant.

Do you believe in a free press or not? I do not feel any confidence that you do.

A free press is one where free speech is guaranteed, with broad constraints on publishing libel, state secrets etc.

Trust in the media, and regulation of it (if any) is a totally different issue.
I believe in a free press provided that includes free from monopolism. We don't have that in this country. INM needs to be broken up. Many view it as a FG mouthpiece.
 

owedtojoy

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I believe in a free press provided that includes free from monopolism. We don't have that in this country. INM needs to be broken up. Many view it as a FG mouthpiece.
There are alternatives

You do not need to read INM newspapers only. I don't, and limit my time listening to Newstalk.

However, I agree there should be a limit to media ownership by a single individual or company. I am just not sure where that limit is, and do not think the Irish media is unfree. We at 15th in the World Press Freedom Index kept by Reporters without Border, while (for example) Hungary is at 87th.

For contrast, Hungary is a country where all the media is under the ownership of friends of the regime.

Extreme ownership concentration
The ownership of Hungary’s media has continued to become increasingly concentrated in the hands of oligarchs allied with Prime Minister Viktor Orbán’s ultra-nationalist government, with the result that the media landscape has been transformed in recent years.
 


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