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Judicial appointments and FF


Tomas Mor

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Feb 22, 2010
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Cyril Kelly's wife was appointed a Judge the other day ( he was removed along with Hugh O Flaherty over the Sheedy affair) Albert Reynold's daughter was appointed a judge recently, Brian Lenihan's wife is a judge also.Seamus Hughes from Mayo, an ex FF TD was made a judge a few months ago. Kilraine director of elections for FF in Sligo/Leitrim was also made a judge. Another lady from Mayo was also made a judge, she is sister in law of a FF jnr. minister, Jimmy Devin's wife Mary is a judge in Mayo. High Court judge Henry Abbott is a former FF TD also.So is the judiciary a FF club as well, it appears that they have a policy of stuffing it with supporters. I am sure they are all ok integrity wise, but what about fairness and be seen to be fair like Caesar's wife. Does the public have confidence in this system and what should be more important to be not seen as fruits of FF in office, like the old corrupt Roman Empire, when Caligula made a senator of his horse.:evil:
 


FakeViking

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Remember the judge who used Harney's carefully planned interview as a reason to claim that CJH couldn't get a fair trial, and let him off scot free.
 

Congalltee

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There are over 140 judges in the country. Some were FG.ers and two were TDs for the Workers Party.
Are you suggesting political membership should bar appointment?
 

corelli

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When FG was in power, it was stuffed with FG Judges, Labour, Labour Judges etc. McDowell was actually the only Minister for Justice in the history of the State, hate him as you will, who actually moved appointments in Cabinet solely on ability. He had appointed two FG'rs, McMenamin and Clarke, whilst in coalition, and they are probably two of the best and most intelligent Judges on the High Court Bench.

It's not a perfect situation, but it is better than it was with the Judicial Advisory Board now in place.

There are two sides to it. Do you, as an elected Parliament, relinquish the right to appoint Judges to an unelected quango, which is the only alternative.
 

corelli

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Remember the judge who used Harney's carefully planned interview as a reason to claim that CJH couldn't get a fair trial, and let him off scot free.
Kevin Haugh, and that is just idle gossip. If the DPP was not satisfied with his decision it could have been appealed. It was not.
 

corelli

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Tomas Mor

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When FG was in power, it was stuffed with FG Judges, Labour, Labour Judges etc. McDowell was actually the only Minister for Justice in the history of the State, hate him as you will, who actually moved appointments in Cabinet solely on ability. He had appointed two FG'rs, McMenamin and Clarke, whilst in coalition, and they are probably two of the best and most intelligent Judges on the High Court Bench.

It's not a perfect situation, but it is better than it was with the Judicial Advisory Board now in place.

There are two sides to it. Do you, as an elected Parliament, relinquish the right to appoint Judges to an unelected quango, which is the only alternative.
You actually prove my point, FF are in power most of the time so they are all FF appointments, and you also proved my point to say that 2 judges Clarke & McMenamin are two of the best from outside the "box". If McDowell did not appoint them they would not be judges, exceptions to the rule ? I would have thought that experience and a little thing called ABILITY would come into play. There was a some disquiet at some of the recent appts, experience etc. Haughey once appointed Lavan to High Court and he had to be removed, as he did not hgave qualifications. He later got it- from another FF Minister.

All the posts prove my point, it is the fruits office. Shame.
 
Last edited:

corelli

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You actually prove my point, FF are in power most of the time so they are all FF appointments, and you also proved my point to say that 2 judges Clarke & McMenamin are two of the best from outside the "box". If McDowell did not appoint them they would not be judges, exceptions to the rule ? I would have thought that experience and a little thing called ABILITY would come into play. There was a some disquiet at some of the recent appts.
FF have appointed some appalling Judges, but predominantly in the District Court, to be fair, which for the majority is a retirement ground for solicitors with poor practices.
 

FakeViking

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Corelli, having read many of your posts, and greatly respect your deep legal knowledge. I really trust your integrity, but in the CJH/Harney case I find it difficult not to surmiise that it was staged, even without a conscious plan to do so.
 

corelli

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Corelli, having read many of your posts, and greatly respect your deep legal knowledge. I really trust your integrity, but in the CJH/Harney case I find it difficult not to surmiise that it was staged, even without a conscious plan to do so.
Well, anyone who knew Kevin Haugh would say he was totally incapable of being anything but scrupulously honest.

There are also many who would disagree with my legal knowledge having any depth at all!! :)
 
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So someones wife who is legally qualified to be a judge is appointed and because her husband was asked to resign it somehow negates her qualifications to be even considered ?

Wow is this the same Judge Kelly who send Father Brendan Smith to jail for 12 years.

As for Albert Reynolds daughter, funny that she happens to share the same name as
Death takes place of Judge Miriam Reynolds - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 21, 2009 but thats about it.

Have you anything other than this to show why the people concerned do not qualify to be a judge or is the fact that because someone is married to someone else effectively rule them out from consideration of having the right to even contemplate a career of their own.

Conor Cruise O'Brien should never have been even considered for a FG-LAB govt as you know who his father in law was.
 

Fear Rua

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Cyril Kelly's wife was appointed a Judge the other day ( he was removed along with Hugh O Flaherty over the Sheedy affair) Albert Reynold's daughter was appointed a judge recently, Brian Lenihan's wife is a judge also.Seamus Hughes from Mayo, an ex FF TD was made a judge a few months ago. Kilraine director of elections for FF in Sligo/Leitrim was also made a judge. Another lady from Mayo was also made a judge, she is sister in law of a FF jnr. minister, Jimmy Devin's wife Mary is a judge in Mayo. High Court judge Henry Abbott is a former FF TD also.So is the judiciary a FF club as well, it appears that they have a policy of stuffing it with supporters. I am sure they are all ok integrity wise, but what about fairness and be seen to be fair like Caesar's wife. Does the public have confidence in this system and what should be more important to be not seen as fruits of FF in office, like the old corrupt Roman Empire, when Caligula made a senator of his horse.:evil:
Éamon Ó Cuív's cousin is a judge.
 

corelli

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So someones wife who is legally qualified to be a judge is appointed and because her husband was asked to resign it somehow negates her qualifications to be even considered ?

Wow is this the same Judge Kelly who send Father Brendan Smith to jail for 12 years.

As for Albert Reynolds daughter, funny that she happens to share the same name as
Death takes place of Judge Miriam Reynolds - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 21, 2009 but thats about it.

Have you anything other than this to show why the people concerned do not qualify to be a judge or is the fact that because someone is married to someone else effectively rule them out from consideration of having the right to even contemplate a career of their own.

Conor Cruise O'Brien should never have been even considered for a FG-LAB govt as you know who his father in law was.
Renolds Daughter was recently appointed to the Circuit Bench.
 

Rocky

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Dec 9, 2004
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You actually prove my point, FF are in power most of the time so they are all FF appointments, and you also proved my point to say that 2 judges Clarke & McMenamin are two of the best from outside the "box". If McDowell did not appoint them they would not be judges, exceptions to the rule ? I would have thought that experience and a little thing called ABILITY would come into play. There was a some disquiet at some of the recent appts, experience etc. Haughey once appointed Lavan to High Court and he had to be removed, as he did not hgave qualifications. He later got it- from another FF Minister.

All the posts prove my point, it is the fruits office. Shame.
What's the alternative though? An unelected quango? Democratically electing them in which case Judges make popular decisions rather than the right ones?

One problem is that Fianna Fail are in power too much which leads too, to many Judges being linked to Fianna Fail and it would be better if there were more changes in government in Ireland and with that more non-FF appointments.

However just because someone is linked to FF doesn't mean they are a bad judge. For example Adrian Hardiman was a member of FF and he's done a very good job on the bench.
 

Panopticon

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Can this thread please be merged with the megathread for "Anyone related to a Fianna Fáil politician should be hounded out of the country or, preferably, shot." Thanks.
 

corelli

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What's the alternative though? An unelected quango? Democratically electing them in which case Judges make popular decisions rather than the right ones?

One problem is that Fianna Fail are in power too much which leads too, to many Judges being linked to Fianna Fail and it would be better if there were more changes in government in Ireland and with that more non-FF appointments.

However just because someone is linked to FF doesn't mean they are a bad judge. For example Adrian Hardiman was a member of FF and he's done a very good job on the bench.
That Hardiman is doing a good job is debatable. He is allergic to some issues, including Economic Social and Cultural Rights. Anyway, off topic.

He was also one of the first backers of the PD's.
 

Tomas Mor

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So someones wife who is legally qualified to be a judge is appointed and because her husband was asked to resign it somehow negates her qualifications to be even considered ?

Wow is this the same Judge Kelly who send Father Brendan Smith to jail for 12 years.

As for Albert Reynolds daughter, funny that she happens to share the same name as
Death takes place of Judge Miriam Reynolds - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 21, 2009 but thats about it.

Have you anything other than this to show why the people concerned do not qualify to be a judge or is the fact that because someone is married to someone else effectively rule them out from consideration of having the right to even contemplate a career of their own.

Conor Cruise O'Brien should never have been even considered for a FG-LAB govt as you know who his father in law was.
Albert's daughter is not named Miriam and is no relation. Do you remember when Flaherty and Kelly were removed, Bertie sent his mistress Celia Larkin to sympathise with their wives and she was even dressed in black !. Now was there not something about Bertie's pal Burke having some connection with that Sheedy chap ?. Of course it was investigated , Bertie climbed every tree but found nothing there. I rest my case m'lud.
 

corelli

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