Junior Minister took €9,000 government jet flight for vote against by-elections

GDPR

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The reality is simple:

Fianna Fáil has chosen to use its government numbers to deny the people their right to vote in three by-elections, despite precedent saying the people have a right to decide who their TDs are, and the Government should not deny them their rights.

Fianna Fáil cynically abused the pairing system with TDs and ministers seeking pairs for self-serving reasons.

Fine Gael decided, rightly, to insist that pairings only be granted for genuine reasons (illness, necessary government commitments, etc). FF is fuming, so spreading smears about this to try to get the opposition to back down.

That ain't happening.

To put it simply: FF decided it was again going to use its majority to deny the people their vote. FF decided in its own self-interest, not the country's, to use the government jet to get ensure they could block the people having a vote. Not only that, but whatever about the issue to getting the minister to Brussels, there was no justification whatsoever for its use to get him home again when commercial flights were available, and it was an absolute cheek on the part of the minister and the government to use the plane not just to fly him home but give him a handy jaunt to Knock.

Don't forget that if the minister was being flown to Knock, it meant that his car and driver had to travel from Dublin to Knock to pick him up.

Frankly, the minister and his party should be required to pay the bill for the flight home from Brussels and he personally should be required to pay the cost of flying to Knock.
Reality, Tommy? Would you know it if it dug its teeth into your eurovision loving arse?
 


Radix

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This 'story' found its way onto this forum ultimately because the plane was spotted at IWAK and those who saw it decided to get into a hissy fit and contacted the local media.

It's a 'non story' as Sync has patiently pointed out time and time again.

The guy had been on government business, and the precedent being set here by the hissy fitters, is going to mean that Taoiseach Kenny will have to always drive to Mayo rather than use our national plane. I think these occasional gestures of support by government for regional airports is a good thing. The local ground crew were given gainful work, ATC were given gainful work, refuellers were given gainful work and the airport gained another bit of kudos.

We need to grow up and forget about engendering a culture of blame. Where otherwise will all this end, given that the next government can only be the same as the outgoing one for all the historical reasons such as the regular Rainbow Government flights by those such as Dick Spring to Kerry on national aircraft.
 

Toland

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This 'story' found its way onto this forum ultimately because the plane was spotted at IWAK and those who saw it decided to get into a hissy fit and contacted the local media.

It's a 'non story' as Sync has patiently pointed out time and time again.

The guy had been on government business, and the precedent being set here by the hissy fitters, is going to mean that Taoiseach Kenny will have to always drive to Mayo rather than use our national plane. I think these occasional gestures of support by government for regional airports is a good thing. The local ground crew were given gainful work, ATC were given gainful work, refuellers were given gainful work and the airport gained another bit of kudos.

We need to grow up and forget about engendering a culture of blame. Where otherwise will all this end, given that the next government can only be the same as the outgoing one for all the historical reasons such as the regular Rainbow Government flights by those such as Dick Spring to Kerry on national aircraft.
Dick Spring is not currently in Government. He's as relevant to this issue as Charles J Haughey.

The rest is (also) claptrap.
 

dotski_w_

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This is one of the many reasons that pairing is actually important to the running of an efficient democracy and shouldn't be mucked around with.
A lot of merit in what you are saying, but for me it's another reason to go further and seperate the powers of legislature and executive. If Ministers were answerable to the Oireachtas, but not members of it (i.e. vacated their seat if appointed to the Govt for a nminated substitute, like MEPs) you could have them available for scrutiny a lot more, and still able to spend more time on their Ministerial duties.

This charade that they are somehow members of the legislature, when simultaneously bound by collective cabinet responsibility (and limited in what they can say outside that brief) means that they have to be there for nearly every debate, despite having no meaningful contribution t make to it, and despite having other stuff to do.

it;'s bad enough being lobby fodder when you've nothing else to do - but when you're supposed to be a Minister....
 

Radix

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Dick Spring is not currently in Government. He's as relevant to this issue as Charles J Haughey.

The rest is (also) claptrap.
I used the word "historical" in terms of the precedent being set by the hissy fitters such as yourself Toland. Rainbow Government TDs (such as Dick Spring), were avid users of Irish aircraft to commute to and from their provincial strongholds when they were flying high, if you'll excuse the pun. So it's hypocritical of rainbow fellow travellers to highlight this issue.

And since you mentioned CJH, I think you will find that historical connections by the same man to the IWAK region, were what brought IWAK into being in the first place. But then again, history isn't a relevant strong point for you, obviously.

Thanks for the trapped clap by the way!
 

turdsl

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We have seen the low standards that Bertie and Cowen have brought this country
Wesee what Bertie has become, just a figure of fun, No Fianna Fail person wants to talkabout him now, We have seen the present Toiseach made a figure of fun all over the world after a late night party. Those two men have destroyed our economy and shamed our people at home and abroad, Is it any wonder when young men like Calleary think it is their right to live like that at the tax payers expense. The country is bust at the hands of those people. Gilmore said it best.
This Fianna Fail government must be put out of office. The time is now, either Kenny or Gilmore will restore the standard of government which we once had and
and are entitled to have once again. To think that a government would spent that much money to oppose a vote to hold a democratic election shows the interest of the people is not what counts but the interests of Fianna Fail
 

Sync

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A lot of merit in what you are saying, but for me it's another reason to go further and seperate the powers of legislature and executive. If Ministers were answerable to the Oireachtas, but not members of it (i.e. vacated their seat if appointed to the Govt for a nminated substitute, like MEPs) you could have them available for scrutiny a lot more, and still able to spend more time on their Ministerial duties.

This charade that they are somehow members of the legislature, when simultaneously bound by collective cabinet responsibility (and limited in what they can say outside that brief) means that they have to be there for nearly every debate, despite having no meaningful contribution t make to it, and despite having other stuff to do.

it;'s bad enough being lobby fodder when you've nothing else to do - but when you're supposed to be a Minister....
Sure, I'd agree with all that. There's a solution to be found here, and it should be done by a cross party committee and enacted for all with very clear rules and standards. But right now there's a huge air of uncertainty due to the collapse in pairing.

The idea that any government should lose a vote because a minister is working abroad on behalf of the country is ridiculous to me.

Uncertainty brings expense, and this is part of that expense.
 

Broke

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The government jet was placed at the disposal of a government minister so he could vote in the Dáil against holding three by-elections and then take a late- night flight to Brussels.

The €9,000 flight for junior minister Dara Calleary was sanctioned by the Department of the Taoiseach for 29th Sept.

However, it has now emerged that Calleary took a separate flight to Brussels on Monday, 27 September on board the 'bigger' Gulfstream IV.

That journey, which lasted 190 minutes ended up costing the taxpayer close to €25,000 and also stopped off in Knock.

Calleary said it would not have been feasible for him to remain in Brussels for the entire week and that the combined €34,000 government jet bill was necessary.




Minister took


Not to worry a cut in SW or child benefit or something can make up the losses on the books!!!
This is another example of FF being in power to long.They have lost touch with the common people,alot like france in 1789.
 

Toland

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A lot of merit in what you are saying, but for me it's another reason to go further and seperate the powers of legislature and executive. If Ministers were answerable to the Oireachtas, but not members of it (i.e. vacated their seat if appointed to the Govt for a nminated substitute, like MEPs) you could have them available for scrutiny a lot more, and still able to spend more time on their Ministerial duties.

This charade that they are somehow members of the legislature, when simultaneously bound by collective cabinet responsibility (and limited in what they can say outside that brief) means that they have to be there for nearly every debate, despite having no meaningful contribution t make to it, and despite having other stuff to do.

it;'s bad enough being lobby fodder when you've nothing else to do - but when you're supposed to be a Minister....
Good point dotski.
 

Toland

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I used the word "historical" in terms of the precedent being set by the hissy fitters such as yourself Toland.
I wasn't aware of any hissy fit coming from this direction.

I recognised the need for the govt jet on this occasion and asked what other circumstances it could be used in.

Do try and read my posts before you make silly accusations against me.

For your information, I never approved of Dick Spring's use of the govt jet, and said so at the time.
 

Radix

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We have seen the low standards that Bertie and Cowen have brought this country
Wesee what Bertie has become, just a figure of fun, No Fianna Fail person wants to talkabout him now, We have seen the present Toiseach made a figure of fun all over the world after a late night party. Those two men have destroyed our economy and shamed our people at home and abroad, Is it any wonder when young men like Calleary think it is their right to live like that at the tax payers expense. The country is bust at the hands of those people. Gilmore said it best.
This Fianna Fail government must be put out of office. The time is now, either Kenny or Gilmore will restore the standard of government which we once had and
and are entitled to have once again. To think that a government would spent that much money to oppose a vote to hold a democratic election shows the interest of the people is not what counts but the interests of Fianna Fail

Tell us Turd.

Are you a public sector or a private sector worker?

What do you do for work?
 

neutral_lurker

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This is another example of FF being in power to long.They have lost touch with the common people,alot like france in 1789.
Yep they definitely have the let them eat cake mentality

I can't see how anyone can really justify this 35,000 euro jaunt plus car and driver when he was dropped off twice at Knock- that taking the P
 

TommyO'Brien

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I used the word "historical" in terms of the precedent being set by the hissy fitters such as yourself Toland. Rainbow Government TDs (such as Dick Spring), were avid users of Irish aircraft to commute to and from their provincial strongholds when they were flying high, if you'll excuse the pun. So it's hypocritical of rainbow fellow travellers to highlight this issue.
You are being blatantly dishonest. If you knew anything about politics you would know that Spring (not someone I have much time for) was critically injured in a car crash in 1981 and left with severe back pain. He was allowed to use the jet because having been left with long-term back pain long car journeys between Kerry and Dublin were extremely painful and involved medication and constant stops in the journey. Spring received far less compensation for the accident than any private citizen received. In any job, employers make special allowances and arrangements for someone whose health problems cause them considerable pain. (I ran into Dick last week and was shocked at his state. He was stooped like someone who is in their 80s because of his back.)

So focusing on Spring when if you how anything about his circumstances you know that long car journeys were extremely painful given his back injury, is nasty and unfortunately all too typical of FF's dirty tactics.
 

GDPR

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It makes no difference where I work. What I posted is the truth.
No, what you posted is what you'd like to believe was the truth. There is a difference, you just don't understand what the difference is, that's all.
 

Sync

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Arra cop on. It doesn't matter what someone does for a living, he's expressing his opinion. His background's not important.
 


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