Katie French- more arrests but who is really to blame?

Dillinger

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smitchy2 said:
Egan and O’ Connor in the Sindo spent every week bigging her up alright.
She talked about selling herself as a product, very similar to the likes of Jordan or Jodie Marsh.
Her death would appear to be self inflicted which is tragic but it happens to so many people every year whether it be drink or drugs.

The lack of condemnation from other models of drugs is shocking.

Yes the silence from other models speaks volumes, I could tell a few stories but I wont. I am sure the first thing they thought of when this tragedy happened was "i must save my career", hense the silence. But hey, this is modern Ireland, this is the way it is now, the ME ME (as Tom Wolfe called them) generation is finally here.


Have the Garda ever managed to convict someone in a case like this before ?
 


johnfás

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Define 'in a case like this'. Nobody has been charged with anything yet so we do not know the details of the case.
 

JDLK

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fergalr said:
The OD, the woman is dead and you'd be liable for that baseless speculation if she was alive.
How baseless is the specualtion really, I mean she admitted herself that she used cocaine which would technically make her a self confessed criminal would it not?
 

Dillinger

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johnfás said:
Define 'in a case like this'. Nobody has been charged with anything yet so we do not know the details of the case.

FFS work it yourself, you know what I mean. :mrgreen:


I know people have been jailed in the UK after someone died at a party.
 

fergalr

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JDLK said:
fergalr said:
The OD, the woman is dead and you'd be liable for that baseless speculation if she was alive.
How baseless is the specualtion really, I mean she admitted herself that she used cocaine which would technically make her a self confessed criminal would it not?
The difference is TheOD's allegation of supplying drugs. Of course, she can't defend herself against these sort of attacks because she's dead, so this sort of behaviour is much easier.
 

Bon Scott

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fergalr said:
The OD, the woman is dead and you'd be liable for that baseless speculation if she was alive.
I dont think it's baseless, if she wanted to market herself in the style of Jordan or Jodie Marsh, thats just a glorified clothes horse is it not?
 

johnfás

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Dillinger said:
johnfás said:
Define 'in a case like this'. Nobody has been charged with anything yet so we do not know the details of the case.

FFS work it yourself, you know what I mean. :mrgreen:


I know people have been jailed in the UK after someone died at a party.
Michael Barrymore? ;)

I'm sure there have been such cases where someone died at a party, whether it by drugs or otherwise. The Annabels case would be an example. You might say well that was for murder/manslaughter and it was for people fighting. But the point is we do not know what people will be charged with here so we have absolutely no idea of what to compare it to. It was speculated in the media that some people have been arrested for lying to police, rather than anything to do with drugs per se.
 

Dillinger

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A couple in the Uk were jailed when someone died at their house party, I must dig it out somewhere.
 

JDLK

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fergalr said:
JDLK said:
fergalr said:
The OD, the woman is dead and you'd be liable for that baseless speculation if she was alive.
How baseless is the specualtion really, I mean she admitted herself that she used cocaine which would technically make her a self confessed criminal would it not?
The difference is TheOD's allegation of supplying drugs. Of course, she can't defend herself against these sort of attacks because she's dead, so this sort of behaviour is much easier.
I'll agree with you that it cannot be proven (even if one of her friends one day came forward and said she did) however I dont think its a huge leap that she shared drugs or even tacitly advocated their use by others
 

The OD

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fergalr said:
The OD, the woman is dead and you'd be liable for that baseless speculation if she was alive.
Fergal, I've no background in law, but as far as I know you cant be liable for speculation.

Also, considering the fact she was a self confessed user of the stuff, its perfectly valid speculation on my behalf.

But do continue defending the drug abusing idiot, death doesnt let you off being a moron.
 

fergalr

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The OD said:
But do continue defending the drug abusing idiot, death doesnt let you off being a moron.
Nor does it give your detractors a moment's hesitation to continue doing making a spectacle out of the cause of your death, it seems.
 

Bon Scott

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I dont post here often but i do read a lot of the discussions and despite the fact you are a PD supporter (not my cup of tea) I find you a fairly balanced individual fergalr.
My question to you as an offshot of this topic, do you think these people (models, fake popstars, film stars etc) are held in an esteem not fitting to their position?
What can the britneys of this world really offer?
 

badinage

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The OD said:
But do continue defending the drug abusing idiot, death doesnt let you off being a moron.
Thousands of people use cocaine every weekend. How many of them end up injured? How many people who use alcohol every weekend end up injured?

If they're shown to be in any way similar, would you say alcohol users are idiots and morons?

She took a risk as she believed the risk of death or serious injury was extremely low - hundreds of thousands of us make the same gamble every time we go out drinking. Indeed we gamble every time we get into a car. You're not a moron unless the risk of injury is high, and the benefit low.
 

fergalr

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I think Irish models/promotional girls are put on a pedestal that they wouldn't achieve in other countries, and that certain newspapers in Ireland are desperate to foster and report on a tabloidy sensational culture that doesn't exist here. Katy French was one of those women, and she and those media outlets certainly benefitted one another. The former got her name out more and the latter probably shifted more copy.

When Ms. French passed away, those same outlets of course behaved in a manner isn't at all suprising. Yes, it is over the top to call the woman our Princess Diana (media hype notwithstanding) and the Taoiseach probably could have weighed a bit better the pros and cons of sending his aide de camp to what was only one of several drug overdose related funerals in that sad several days last year. Not only that, but the shock and outrage being expressed by men and women in the media who aren't stupid and work in an industry that is unlikely to be drug-free was absurd. Perhaps not Irish journalism's greatest moment. This being said, the woman was well known and some attention was only to be expected. This was at a time, to be fair, when the Six-One News was reading like The Irish Times death notices.

The criticism of Katy French in particular seems to be based to some degree in her being famous, or having used the media to become famous, as if somehow this was a mitigating factor in the drugs she took killing her. There is a lot bitterness that the press fairly or unfairly focused on her and not on the other people who overdosed. I think the comments I have read here and elsewhere stating not only that it was her own fault but that her fame allows such gratuitously hurtful comments are unwarranted. In a country as small as Ireland, the chances that someone who knew her or knows someone who knew her, or knew someone to have lost their life to drugs reading them is not exactly tiny.

Yes of course, her having taken the drugs caused her death. But I honestly do not understand why it is necessary to rehash that over and over again until the point where it appears to be either gloating or kicking somebody when they are down. And you can't get much further down than six feet under. I didn't exactly keep my lips shut when Haughey died and when he was being eulogised, and in hindsight I wish I had been a little more circumspect. Katy French's passing was a tragedy, no more or less than the tragedies that hit the families down in the South East in the same few days and to my mind she deserves the same respect and to have the same dignity afforded to her memory.
 

JDLK

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badinage said:
The OD said:
But do continue defending the drug abusing idiot, death doesnt let you off being a moron.
Thousands of people use cocaine every weekend. How many of them end up injured? How many people who use alcohol every weekend end up injured?

If they're shown to be in any way similar, would you say alcohol users are idiots and morons?

She took a risk as she believed the risk of death or serious injury was extremely low - hundreds of thousands of us make the same gamble every time we go out drinking. Indeed we gamble every time we get into a car. You're not a moron unless the risk of injury is high, and the benefit low.
Oooh, I can see what you mean on the whole "life itself is a risk" thing but comparing hard illegal drugs that fuel and fund gangland violence with alcohol and cars is a bit of a leap
 

badinage

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JDLK said:
Oooh, I can see what you mean on the whole "life itself is a risk" thing but comparing hard illegal drugs that fuel and fund gangland violence with alcohol and cars is a bit of a leap
The morality of funding narco-terrorism aside, on the issue of whether she was a "moron"/"idiot" because she took cocaine, I disagree with you - I don't know the statistics, but I'd be surprised if the risk of death from a line or two of cocaine was high enough to warrant such terms. Now if she had a dozen lines, that's a different story, but lets not forget the number of young men who have over 12 pints every Saturday night.
 

JDLK

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fergalr said:
But I honestly do not understand why it is necessary to rehash that over and over again
Its an ongoing media story, which is still having effect RE: the people who have been arrested in realtion to her death recently, so in that sence it is still a very open debate.

But even after the case whatever way you look at it Katy French's image will forever be linked to drug death for the wider community, so whenever the issue of drug deaths come up even after her case had been settled, its likely her name will crop up.
 

fergalr

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And another round of criticism?
 

JDLK

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badinage said:
JDLK said:
Oooh, I can see what you mean on the whole "life itself is a risk" thing but comparing hard illegal drugs that fuel and fund gangland violence with alcohol and cars is a bit of a leap
The morality of funding narco-terrorism aside, on the issue of whether she was a "moron"/"idiot" because she took cocaine, I disagree with you - I don't know the statistics, but I'd be surprised if the risk of death from a line or two of cocaine was high enough to warrant such terms. Now if she had a dozen lines, that's a different story, but lets not forget the number of young men who have over 12 pints every Saturday night.
Yes I can see what you mean, there was defintely an atmosphere in Ireland that cocaine was somehow a safe drug which was illegal for technical reasons rather than practical reasons. But as you say its hard to know if this was the reality or just the perception if we dont have the stats,. I know the deaths in Waterford were well braodcast on the news, was her death after those or before them, because surely the "safe" perception was gone after those deaths?
 

fergalr

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It was after.
 


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