-Keep The Magdalene Laundry For The Victims, Not yours to sell! Take 2 13 September from 13:00-15:00 Next Week!!!!!!!!!

twokidsmanybruises

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Stick a huge bloody plaque on it stating the building’s significance and then here of women and children who went through its doors.

If a developer wants to turn into into a hotel, a set corporate suites or apartments, let them do so, as long as the plaque remains on the wall.
 


StarryPlough01

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Stick a huge bloody plaque on it stating the building’s significance and then here of women and children who went through its doors.

If a developer wants to turn into into a hotel, a set corporate suites or apartments, let them do so, as long as the plaque remains on the wall.


#NoWeePlaque
 

StarryPlough01

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2 X Sample *Proforma Letters* below requesting YOUR Dublin City Councillor VOTE AGAINST SALE OF SEAN MCDERMOTT STREET MAGDALENE LAUNDRY 2-ACRE SITE...



Mailing List for Sixty-three Dublin City Councillors ~


https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?EM=1&ID=0


Councillor Chris Andrews Email: chris.andrews@dublincity.ie

Councillor Kieran Binchy, Email: kieran.binchy@dublincity.ie

Councillor Paddy Bourke Email: pbourkecllr@eircom.net

Councillor Janice Boylan Email: janice.boylan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Tom Brabazon Email: Tom.brabazon@dublincity.ie

Councillor Christy Burke Email: christy.burke@dublincity.ie

Councillor Claire Byrne Email: claire.byrne@dublincity.ie

Deputy Lord Mayor Councillor Cathleen Carney Boud Email: cathleen.boud@dublincity.ie

Councillor Brendan Carr Email: brendan.carr@dublincity.ie

Councillor Aine Clancy Email: aine.clancy@dublincity.ie

Councillor Anthony Connaghan Email: anthony.connaghan@dublincity.ie

Councillor David Costello Email: david.costello@dublincity.ie

Councillor Patrick Costello Email: patrick.costello@dublincity.ie

Councillor Ciaran Cuffe Email: ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie

Councillor Hazel De Nortuin Email: hazel.denortuin@dublincity.ie

Councillor Daithi De Roiste Email: daithi.deroiste@dublincity.ie

Councillor Daithi Doolan Email: daithi.doolan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Pat Dunne Email: pat.dunne1@dublincity.ie

Councillor Gaye Fagan Email: gaye.fagan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Anne Feeney Email: anne.feeney@dublincity.ie

Councillor Declan Flanagan Email: declan.flanagan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Mannix Flynn Email: mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie

Councillor Mary Freehill Email: marycfreehill@gmail.com

Councillor Gary Gannon Email: gary.gannon@socialdemocrats.ie

Councillor Alison Gilliland Email: alison.gilliland@dublincity.ie

Councillor Paul Hand Email: phand@dublincity.ie

Councillor Deirdre Heney Email: heneydm@gmail.com

Councillor Jane Horgan-Jones Email: horganjones.jane@gmail.com

Councillor Vincent Jackson Email: vincent.jackson@dublincity.ie

Councillor Andrew Keegan Email: andrew.keegan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Teresa Keegan Email: teresa.keegan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Greg Kelly Email: greg.kelly@dublincity.ie

Councillor Frank Kennedy Email: frank.kennedy@dublincity.ie

Councillor Dermot Lacey Email: dermot.lacey@labour.ie

Councillor John Lyons Email: john.lyons31@gmail.com

Councillor Mícheál Mac Donncha Email: mmacdonncha@gmail.com

Councillor Tina MacVeigh Email: tinymv@gmail.com

Councillor Sean Paul Mahon Email: seanpaul.mahon@dublincity.ie

Councillor Ray McAdam Email: raymcadam@gmail.com

Councillor Paul McAuliffe Email: paul@votemcauliffe.com

Councillor Paddy McCartan Email: cllrpatmccartan@gmail.com

Councillor Ruairi McGinley Email: uairi.mcginley@dublincity.ie

Councillor Seamas McGrattan Email: seamas.mcgrattan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Ray McHugh Email: ray.mchugh@dublincity.ie

Councillor Andrew Montague Email: andrewmontague@me.com

Councillor Edel Moran Email: sadhbhm09@gmail.com

Councillor Rebecca Moynihan Email: rebecca.moynihan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Michael Mullooly Email: mulloolymichael@gmail.com

Councillor Emma Murphy Email: emma.murphy@dublincity.ie

Councillor Criona Ni Dhalaigh Email: dcccedept@gmail.com

Councillor Naoise O Muiri Email: naoise.omuiri@dublincity.ie

Councillor Michael O'Brien Email: mobrien@dublincity.ie

Councillor Claire O'Connor Email: claire.oconnor@dublincity.ie

Councillor Damian O'Farrell Email: damianofarrell@gmail.com

Councillor Ciaran O'Moore Email: ciaran.omoore@dublincity.ie

Councillor Larry O'Toole Email: larry.otoole@dublincity.ie

Councillor Cieran Perry Email: cieran.perry@dublincity.ie

Councillor Noeleen Reilly Email: noeleen.reilly@dublincity.ie

Lord Mayor Nial Ring Email: Lordmayor@dublincity.ie

Councillor Eilis Ryan Email: eilis.ryan@dublincity.ie

Councillor Norma Sammon Email: norma.sammon@dublincity.ie

Councillor Dr Paddy Smyth Email: paddy.smyth@dublincity.ie

Councillor Sonya Stapleton Email: sonya.stapleton@dublincity.ie



(1) PROFORMA LETTER TO COPY AND PASTE, AND THEN SEND TO DUBLIN CITY COUNCILLORS:



6 September 2018



Dear Councillors


Vote Against Sale of Sean McDermott Magdalene Laundry 2-Acre Site on 13 September 2018


Making it a Museum and Educational Centre benefits the community more, bringing world recognition of Dublin's commitment to human rights, which has always been the cornerstone of Irish culture, and its appeal to tourism and investment.



Yours sincerely



[Insert your name]


Please remember that we are writing to Politicians!


AND


(2) AN ALTERNATIVE PROFORMA LETTER TO COPY AND PASTE, AND THEN SEND TO DUBLIN CITY COUNCILLORS:



6 September 2018


Dear Councillor [Insert name]


Vote Against Sale of Sean McDermott Magdalene Laundry 2-Acre Site on 13 September 2018


Sean McDermott Street Magdalene Laundry should be a Heritage site to memorialise the victims in perpetuity. It should be protected from commercialisation. Development would be a slap in the face to those who laboured involuntarily, without payment, and spent their entire lives behind the doors of that institution.

They should have a permanent significant Memorial for the multiple generations of victims, so they will never be forgotten.

Yours sincerely



[Insert your name]


_____________



Contact Details ~

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?EM=0&ID=0


Councillors by Political Party ~

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=PARTY&VW=LIST&PIC=0


Councillors by Local Electoral Area ~

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0


Councillors by Local Electoral Area ~

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgMemberIndex.aspx?VW=TABLE&PIC=1&FN=WARD


View councillors in a table ~

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgMemberIndex.aspx?VW=TABLE&PIC=1&FN=
 

Catalpast

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Can you name any women who claim they were physically abused within its walls?
 

riddles

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Messages
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The country seems to be awash with people who have never heard of contraception or the concept of actually being responsible for your own kids. Maybe the template of the laundries or industrial schools could be revisited to provide for the most vulnerable in our society.
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
Messages
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Nobody gave a dam about the buildings until developers did. Me smells victim grooming going on in the area.
Last thing the cartoon left running the area around there want is people working.
They prefer gestures to progress, employment in a hotel or somewhere to shoot up in.
 

McTell

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Oct 16, 2012
Messages
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Twitter
No







If you can make it during your lunch break or whatever that'd be great. This dark period of our history should not be airbrushed.

Dublin 1 address? Sell off asap.

If it was Ballina? - set up a presidential library.

Dublin vaults should set up a "laundry inmate's work experience for 1 hour" - they would clean up :lol:
 

mangaire2

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Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,565
Would people want to stay in a hotel if there was constant reminders that they were staying in the site of one of Ireland's Gulags?
"one of Ireland's Gulags?" !!!!!

if you want to see "one of Ireland's Gulags", no need at all, at all, for you to look outside of your own little Six County state.

no doubt, you're in favour of turning Long Kesh 'into something of meaning to all the victims who were incarcerated there' ?
 

InsideImDancing

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Apr 3, 2011
Messages
21,573







If you can make it during your lunch break or whatever that'd be great. This dark period of our history should not be airbrushed.
Lmfao. Keep it for the victims? You're not even joking too..
 

Sweet Darling

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Jan 2, 2017
Messages
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Dublin 1 address? Sell off asap.

If it was Ballina? - set up a presidential library.

Dublin vaults should set up a "laundry inmate's work experience for 1 hour" - they would clean up :lol:
Library.? in that area.? Would make more sense to turn it in to a Junkie needle exchange center.
When the schools in that area send someone around to the houses to get the kids in, they are usually ending up getting the parents up, don't mind the kids that are missing from the school .

Thinking about it. Do we really want Tourists walking down around that area. Junkies, phone snatchers,
rubbish all over the gaff. Better to leave them to wallow in their ghetto of victimhood with the different cartoon left groups and shin fein trying the outdo one another to be the voice of the victim lifestylers
 
Last edited:

wombat

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33,002
would make more sense to turn it in to a Junkie drop in center.
If the councillors have their way, that's what it will be used for until one of them sets a fire.
 

Cruimh

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Apr 30, 2010
Messages
83,467
"one of Ireland's Gulags?" !!!!!

if you want to see "one of Ireland's Gulags", no need at all, at all, for you to look outside of your own little Six County state.

no doubt, you're in favour of turning Long Kesh 'into something of meaning to all the victims who were incarcerated there' ?
were a full one percent of the population of NI banged up during the troubles?

And these women weren't terrorists.

Away with your pathetic whataboutery.
 

Roisin3

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Dec 12, 2009
Messages
18,073
were a full one percent of the population of NI banged up during the troubles?

And these women weren't terrorists.

Away with your pathetic whataboutery.
So what did you lot do with your unwed pregnant women and the children they had?

I’ve asked this question of you before, more than once iirc.
 

GDPR

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So what did you lot do with your unwed pregnant women and the children they had?

I’ve asked this question of you before, more than once iirc.
It depended on class and ethnicity- the Anglo-Irish were the first ones to open these institutions to deal with own. Generally though Ulster Scots have been historically semi okay unwed pregnant women at least among working class, small farmer and farm labourer stock, but the further you move up the class chain the more that changes.
 

GDPR

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So what did you lot do with your unwed pregnant women and the children they had?

I’ve asked this question of you before, more than once iirc.
Quakers probably carried out "honour murders", why after Nixon the whole concept of Quakers as pacifists remains is beyond me, the thing is though that as Cruimh well knows before the foundation of the Free State Southern Ireland was the Thailand of Western Europe which naturally caused people to react after semi-independence in a very puritan direction.
 

StarryPlough01

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Nov 13, 2010
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7 February 2018
#1052
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-original-thread-106.html#post11821772



'BBC Our World 2014 Ireland's Hidden Bodies Hidden Secrets'


Presenter Sue Lloyd-Roberts
Published on Oct 5, 2014



[video]https://www.youtube.com/embed/MyE4Nuw_U1k?wmode=opaque[/video]




HIGH PARK, DRUMCONDRA, MAGDALENE LAUNDRY, DUBLIN



THERE IS AN INTERVIEW WITH GRAVEDIGGER EMPLOYED TO DIG UP MAGDALENE WOMEN. WHEN THE NUNS WERE SELLING THE LAUNDRY. HE EXPECTED TO FIND 133 BODIES BUT THERE WERE 22 EXTRA BODIES THAT NUNS DIDNT KNOW WERE THERE. HE FOUND PLASTER CASTS ON WRISTS, ARMS, LEGS, FEET, ANKLES. 'SEEMED TO BE BROKEN ARMS AND LEGS.' HE SAID THE WOMEN WERE TOO SMALL AND FRAIL FOR THAT KIND OF WORK.



MARY MERRITT, A SURVIVOR OF HIGH PARK MAGDALENE GULAG:



Survivor Mary Merritt was born of a single mother in a Mother and Baby home. She was sent to an orphanage that was run by nuns. One day she was so hungry she took an apple from an orchard . The nuns sent 11 year old Mary to work in High Park Magdalene Laundry. They told Mary that she would stay there until she learned to stop stealing. She remained there for over 13 years (7 January 1947 to September 1960). Some of the women had been there for 56 or 57 years. [HER FRIEND MARY BREHANY DIED THERE ON 28 JANUARY 1972, SHE WAS ENSLAVED FOR 56 YEARS).



High Park had government contracts..


High Park Magdalene Laundry clients were the airport, one of the country's main train stations, airlines, government departments like the department of fisheries, hotels, convents and seminaries, private individuals…


Other commercial laundries and trade unions complained at time, as they couldn't compete with the nuns whose overheads didn't include wages, as they had 'free forced labour.'



EXPOSURE OF FALSELY PRESENTED FARRAGO OF LIES MCALEESE REPORT:




The BBC presenter SUE LLOYD-ROBERTS exposes farrago of lies McAleese Report that says median (average) duration of stay in Magdalene Laundries was approximately 7 months.



FACT #1:: 46 PERCENT OF WOMEN FROM 1954 - 1964 NEVER GOT OUT OF HIGH PARK MAGDALENE GULAG



FACT #2: MOST WOMEN FROM 1954 - 1964 WERE THERE AT HIGH PARK MAGDALENE GULAG FOR A MINIMUM OF EIGHT (8) YEARS



FACT #3: MCALEESE REPORT'S FIGURES, AS PRESENTED, ARE MISLEADING



Justice for Magdalenes Co-Founder Claire McGettrick:


Claire McGettrick, (Justice for Magdalenes) compared headstones with electoral rolls, and discovered that for one 10 year period MOST WOMEN were at High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry for a MINIMUM of 8 years.


Justice for Magdalenes looked at electoral registers, for example, from 1954-1964. And looking at High Park, in particular, they have been able to show that at least 46 percent of these women from 1954 1964 never got out.


A woman in Limerick spent 74 years in Magdalene Laundry. In 1911, they have her there at 18 years of age.


Claire McGettrick says it tells a completely different story to McAleese Report. And the way the figures are presented is frankly MISLEADING. It's not respectful of the LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THESE WOMEN.


...................


Survivor Gabriel in Limerick was put to work making _commercial_ lace (collars, handkerchiefs...) from 9.00 am in the morning until 6.00 pm


Their laundry clients were churches, colleges, the Bedford Hotel, the Railway Hotel, the Stella Restaurant, the Limerick lawn tennis club...


Gabriel's mother asked the nuns to stop her daughter (17 years of age) running away with her boyfriend and the nuns obliged by imprisoning her.


Gabriel said the prisons and Magdalene Laundries are the same system, they worked the same system. They cover up, it's the Church and State working together.
 

StarryPlough01

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Nov 13, 2010
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Part 1 of 2
7 February 2018
#1060
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-106.html#post11821944


Part 1 of 2...


Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) 1922


Constitution of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) Act, 1922


Article 14

All citizens of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) without distinction of sex, who have reached the age of twenty-one years and who comply with the provisions of the prevailing electoral laws, shall have the right to vote for members of Dáil Eireann, and to take part in the Referendum and Initiative. All citizens of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) without distinction of sex who have reached the age of thirty years and who comply with the provisions of the prevailing electoral laws, shall have the right to vote for members of Seanad Eireann. No voter may exercise more than one vote at an election to either House, and the voting shall be by secret ballot. The mode and place of exercising this right shall be determined by law.



IRISH SOCIETY'S MISOGYNY SINCE 1922, INCLUDING FEMALE NUNS



HISTORICAL CONTEXT BELOW~~




Extract From JUSTICE FOR MAGDALENES RESEARCH (JFM) letter to Office of the Ombudsperson


http://jfmresearch.com/wp-content/up...an-15.2.17.pdf



Emer Doyle
Office of the Ombudsman
18 Lower Leeson Street
Dublin 2
By post and email to emer.doyle@ombudsman.gov.ie


15th February 2017


Re: Ombudsman investigation into administration of Magdalene ‘ex gratia’ scheme



(f) Refusal to accept State responsibility for forced labour or other abuse in Magdalene Laundries


JFMR is disappointed in the extreme that, since the Taoiseach’s State apology, the Minister for Justice and her Department have issued numerous public statements denying any State responsibility for human rights abuses in the Magdalene Laundries.


The government has never established an independent investigation into abuse in the Magdalene Laundries (the IDC’s remit was limited to investigating State interaction with the institutions). The Minister and Department for Justice now rely on the State’s own failure to investigate in order to justify their false claim that there is no publicly available evidence of State responsibility for systematic abuse in the Magdalene Laundries.


Only last week, the Minister for Justice stated on the Dáil record, while responding to a Parliamentary Question concerning the Ombudsman’s investigation into the Department’s administration of the Scheme, that:


Although there was no finding in the McAleese Report which indicated that the State had any liability in the matter, following the report’s publication the Taoiseach issued a State apology to the women.25


Ireland is being examined by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women this week. In its report to the Committee, the government (led by the Department of Justice) has stated that it knows of ‘no factual evidence to support allegations of systematic torture or ill treatment of a criminal nature’ in Magdalene Laundries.26


The government has repeatedly stated to UN human rights bodies in the years since the Taoiseach’s apology that there is‘ [n]o factual evidence to support allegations of systematic torture or ill treatment of a criminal nature in these institutions’, and that the facts uncovered by the IDC‘ do not support allegations that women were systematically detained unlawfully in these institutions or kept for long periods against 9 their will’.27


JFMR’s report to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women28 contains a summary of the substantial evidence of gross and systematic human rights violations contained in both the IDC Report and Mr Justice Quirke’s Report.


In its recent report to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission stated that:


The IHREC is concerned that the rights of more than 11,000 women were systematically violated while living in institutions known as Magdalen Laundries. The IHREC is of the view that these women and girls were subjected to mistreatment and were victims of forced or compulsory labour in contravention of Ireland’s obligations under the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Forced Labour Convention and, as a result, were denied their basic rights to education, fair wages and social security.


The IHREC also notes that while an Inter-Departmental Committee (IDC) to establish the facts of the State involvement with the Magadalen Laundries, was established in 2011 on foot of a recommendation by the UN Committee Against Torture, it fell short of the full independent statutory mechanism to investigate the State’s role in the Laundries as recommended by the former IHRC in its initial assessment of the system.29


Regarding forced labour, it is indefensible for the Minister for Justice, her Department or the government as a whole to claim that they know of no factual evidence that would give rise to the belief that the State has any legal liability for forced labour in Magdalene Laundries, because:


(a) The Department of Justice accepts that children and women worked in Magdalene Laundries. The Taoiseach and Tánaiste also acknowledged this fact in their apologies on 19 February 2013. 30


(b) The IDC Report, Chapter 19, contains evidence of girls and women being forced constantly to carry out ‘heavy and difficult’ work at commercial laundering, sewing and making handcrafts, including rosary beads and clothing.31


Chapter 19 cites women’s complaints of being tired, ‘soaking wet’ and too small to operate laundry machinery safely.32


(c) The IDC Report clarifies that girls and women were not paid wages for the work they were forced to carry out.


Chapter 20 states that ‘[w]ages were not paid either to the girls or women who worked in the Laundries or to the members of the Religious Congregations who also worked there.’33


The Chapter also notes that the Conditions of Employment Act, 1936, exempted the religious congregations from the legislative requirement to pay wages to the girls and women working and living in Magdalene Laundries.34


(d) The IDC Report provides clear evidence that girls and women were not free to leave Magdalene Laundries while they were being forced to work. Chapter 19 states that ‘a large number of the women spoke of a very real fear that they would remain in the Magdalen Laundry for the rest of theiir lives’ and the Chapter quotes the evidence of women who believed that they would die in the Magdalene Laundries.35


Chapter 19 summarises evidence from several of the religious congregations explaining why they locked doors and gates of the Magdalene Laundries36 and cites the testimony of a former novice in a Magdalene Laundry that ‘ both the external and internal doors of the Laundry were locked.’37


(e) The IDC Report provides evidence of punishments in the Magdalene Laundries.


Chapter 19 cites evidence of some women being shaken, poked or ‘dug’ at with implements, rapped on the knuckles, slapped or punched,38 forced to kneel for several hours, put in ‘isolation’, confined in a padded cell or forced to lie and kiss the floor, having soiled bedsheets pinned to one’s back,39 or having one’s haircut.40


The Chapter also includes some of the religious congregations’ evidence regarding punishments, including prolonged standing and kneeling, and transfer between institutions.41


(f) The Irish Human Rights Commission published a Follow-up Report on State involvement with the Magdalene Laundries, which evaluated the IDC Report’s contents from a legal standpoint ‘in the absence of a more thorough investigation, as recommended by the IHRC and the United Nations Committee Against Torture’.42


The IHRC concluded that forced or compulsory labour likely occurred in Magdalene Laundries, in violation of the 1930 ILO Forced Labour Convention and Article 4 of the European Convention on Human Rights (and, therefore, JFMR submits, the Irish Constitution). The IHRC stated, inter alia:


a . '...it would appear likely, at a minimum, that all girls or women who entered the Laundries on remand or probation were by definition in a situation of detention and, thus, in fear of a penalty unless they complied with the instructions of the detaining authorities (here the relevant religious congregation)...’;43


b. ‘insofar as the women and girls in the Laundries ‘.were in a vulnerable and isolated situation, being dependent on the religious authorities in the Laundries for their welfare, subsistence and liberty, and given that at least some of those women were under threat of a penalty from the State if they left the Laundries, while others may have faced a loss of privilege or been subject to penalties if they refused to work, there may have been a violation of Article 4 of the ECHR.


The IDC Report does not provide any evidence to refute this contention, and in many respect reinforces this conclusion’;44


c. ‘it could be said that in 1936, the Government not only legislated for the non-payment of certain workers carrying out industrial work, but in not clearly suppressing and outlawing forced or compulsory labour of girls and women, as required under the 1930 Convention, it acted in direct contravention of its obligations under the Convention’;45


d. ‘This violation was further compounded by the limited monitoring of Magdalen Laundries by the Factories Inspectorate, both in relation to the frequency and scope of those inspections. This is particularly so given the fact that the Factories Inspectorate were not specifically authorised and did not in fact examine whether the labour was lawful, whether wages were paid or whether the girls and women were present on a voluntary basis, being primarily concerned with occupational health and safety issues’;46


and


e. ‘The State’s culpability in regard to forced or compulsory labour and/or servitude in the Laundries appears to be threefold. Firstly; at the administrative level, it failed to outlaw and police against such practices, including through criminal sanction. Secondly; the State or its agents placed girls and women in the Laundries knowing that such girls and women would be obliged to provide their labour in those institutions, and then thirdly, the State further supported these practices by benefiting from commercial contracts with the Laundries'.47

[Maeve O’Rourke, Claire McGettrick, Mari Steed, Dr Katherine O’Donnell & Dr James M Smith, Boston College]



Originally Posted by StarryPlough01
H-Net Reviews


Lindsey Earner-Byrne. Mother and Child: Maternity and Child Welfare in Dublin, 1922-60., Manchester: Manchester University Press, 2007. x + 245 pp. $74.95 (cloth), ISBN 978-0-7190-7474-5.


Reviewed by Ginger Frost
Published on H-Childhood (November, 2008)
Commissioned by Patrick J. Ryan


Women and Children Last?


... an analysis of government and church policy toward maternal and infant welfare in the early years of the Irish Free State, concentrating on the city of Dublin. ….


The interwar period saw the beginnings of a partnership between state and private (largely Catholic) charities in welfare provision. The Catholic Church insisted that private charity was the most appropriate vehicle for aid, for both the recipient and donor. The government agreed, in part, because the costs of welfare were much less when subsidized by charities. However, this partnership had three disadvantages for Irish families.


First, the Catholic Church had an effective veto on social programs, meaning they could block any legislation regarded as harmful to the Church or family.


For example, ... the Church ... opposed any bill that even hinted at educating women about birth control.


Second, the reliance on private charity meant that sectarianism was encouraged, not discouraged. The Catholic Church regarded Protestant, non-denominational, and secular efforts as attempts to proselytize Catholics to other faiths, and thus refused to combine services or to relinquish control of its charities. ....


Third, the Church (seconded by the state) was determined to uphold patriarchy in the family. They then opposed any measure to give aid directly to women, thinking this would undermine the male breadwinner. The result was a severe limitation on recipients of aid; they tended to be widows with children--and then only if they met certain “moral” standards. As a result, the provisions for women and children in the 1920s and 1930s were modest and still centered on the “deserving.” ....


McQuaid became archbishop at a time of “emergency,” since the world war caused economic disruption. Despite the growing needs, McQuaid frustrated all attempts to bureaucratize social services. He remained convinced that only the deserving poor should get charity, a view that became increasingly at odds with those who argued that proper nutrition and medical care was a right of all Irish women as citizens.


During the war, McQuaid managed to enforce the Catholic position, helped by a compliant Department of Local Government and Public Health. The latter allowed the Church to vet any proposed legislation and changed anything offensive to the former. ....


The period between 1946 and 1956 showed renewed strains in the partnership between church and state, partially due to the appointment of Dr. James Deeney to the Department of Local Government and Public Health.


Deeney wanted a public health system that was comprehensive in scope and based on rights. The Church, aided by the Irish Medical Association, opposed these measures on a number of grounds: interference of the state into the family, fears of women getting birth control information, and loss of professional standing for doctors. McQuaid was able to delay the plans, ....


... a careful account of the “mother-and-child” controversy of 1950-51, .... Interestingly, despite all the *obstruction,* a public health system for mothers did exist in Dublin, started on an experimental basis in the 1940s. Its success was one reason the Irish finally passed a Public Health Act, based on a woman’s right as a citizen, in 1953. By 1956, Irish mothers got help during pregnancy and birth, a grant of £4 for every confinement, and hot meals at maternity centers. Though the laws ignored social causes of poverty, they were a vast improvement.


-----> These better conditions, however, did not spread to illegitimate children and their mothers..


Illegitimacy rates were low in Ireland, below 3 percent until the 1970s (and still only 4.5 percent in 1979),


:evil: but the mortality rate for illegitimate children was double that of legitimate ones. Attempts to help unwed mothers were frustrated time and again by concerns about “encouraging immorality". :evil:


-----> The only aid for such women was Catholic “magdalene” homes. These were thinly veiled prisons; they required a year’s stay and hard manual labor to recompense the institution for the keep of mother and child. After a year, the child then went into an orphanage or industrial school, and the mother left to resume her life.


.... real change for unwed mothers only came in 1973, with the Social Welfare Act.


.... Slowly, the state stopped approaching public health as charity for the needy and instead saw it as an entitlement program that encompassed all citizens.


... good use of the correspondence of the two archbishops of Dublin (Edward Byrne and McQuaid), detailing their extensive influence on the government. ….

………………………..


To be continued below... PART 2 OF 2
 

StarryPlough01

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Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
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http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-107.html#post11821946


Continued... PART 2 OF 2



IRISH SOCIETY'S MISOGYNY SINCE 1922, INCLUDING FEMALE NUNS



HISTORICAL CONTEXT BELOW~~



Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen Laundries (McAleese Report; 2013)

Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen Laundries - The Department of Justice and Equality


Justice for Magdalenes has challenged IDC findings (McAleese Report) about duration of stay in Magdalene Laundries. This flawed report, released in 2013, puts this at 3.22 years, with a median of 27.6 weeks (ignoring women who went in before independence).

The advocacy group Justice for Magdalenes has challenged the IDC’s findings about the number of women in the system and the average duration of stay. The report puts this at 3.22 years, with a median of 27.6 weeks.

JFM co founder Claire McGettrick has checked electoral registers to find that 63.1 per cent of the adult women registered in the Donnybrook Magdalene Laundry in 1954-55 were still there nine years later. Local grave records show that over half the women at the institution between 1954 and 1964 were there until they died.



Maeve O'Rourke



Watch and listen to this exceptionally gifted woman Maeve O'Rourke below:



[video=youtube;OgjH7zCXFok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgjH7zCXFok[/video]



Go to - 5:48
Electoral records for two Dublin Magdalene laundries show that 63 percent of women registered in 1955 were still present 9 years later in 1964.


Go to - 6:10
Because of the recent publicity, we might think that Magdalene laundries are uniquely Irish and Catholic, but in fact their roots were neither. In the 18th and 19th Centuries they operated not just in Ireland ,but also in the UK, and other European countries, as well as North America and Australia. They were run by religious and non-religious groups as part of the emergence of the so called Rescue Movement.


But in the early 1900s, as they were beginning to close down elsewhere in Europe, in Ireland they were getting going with a renewed vigour. They were becoming places for the Catholic, the new Catholic State and society, to hide away girls and women considered in danger of giving the country a bad name. This idea that girls and women were a problem to society and that if they ended up in Magdalene laundries it was basically their fault. was quite literally beaten into them. The words thrown at them inside the Magdalene laundries, and the punishing regime they were forced in to ingrained a stigma and a sense of shame that many of the women live with today.




'BBC Our World 2014 Ireland's Hidden Bodies Hidden Secrets'

Presenter Sue Lloyd-Roberts*
Published on Oct 5, 2014


[video=youtube;MyE4Nuw_U1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE4Nuw_U1k[/video]



HIGH PARK, DRUMCONDRA, MAGDALENE LAUNDRY, DUBLIN


Below is testimony of man who was in charge of unearthing remains of Magdalene women. A simple gravedigger. He spoke on record, so it’s not conjecture or misinformation, it’s the truth. The nuns couldn't silence him:


BBC PRESENTER SUE LLOYD-ROBERTS INTRODUCES THIS SEGMENT BY SAYING GRAVEDIGGER EMPLOYED TO DIG UP MAGDALENE WOMEN WHEN THE NUNS WERE SELLING THE LAUNDRY. GRAVEDIGGER SAID THAT HE EXPECTED TO FIND 133 BODIES BUT THERE WERE 22 EXTRA BODIES THAT NUNS DIDNT KNOW WERE THERE. HE FOUND PLASTER CASTS ON WRISTS, ARMS, LEGS, FEET, ANKLES. 'SEEMED TO BE BROKEN ARMS AND LEGS.' HE SAID THE WOMEN WERE TOO SMALL AND FRAIL FOR THAT KIND OF WORK. :evil: :mad: :evil:


Survivor Mary Merritt was born of a single mother in a Mother and Baby home. She was sent to an orphanage that was run by nuns. One day she was so hungry she took an apple from an orchard . The nuns sent 11 year old Mary to work in High Park Magdalene Laundry. They told Mary that she would stay there until she learned to stop stealing. She remained there for over 13 years (7 January 1947 to September 1960). Some of the women had been there for 56 or 57 years. [HER FRIEND MARY BREHANY DIED THERE ON 28 JANUARY 1972, SHE WAS ENSLAVED FOR 56 YEARS). :evil: :mad: :evil:



FACT #1: 46 PERCENT OF WOMEN FROM 1954 - 1964 NEVER GOT OUT OF HIGH PARK, DRUMCONDRA MAGDALENE GULAG


FACT #2 : MOST WOMEN FROM 1954 - 1964 WERE THERE AT HIGH PARK MAGDALENE GULAG FOR A MINIMUM OF EIGHT (8) YEARS


FACT #3: MCALEESE REPORT'S FIGURES, AS PRESENTED, ARE MISLEADING


:evil: Claire McGettrick, (Justice for Magdalenes) compared headstones with electoral rolls, and discovered that for one 10 year period MOST WOMEN were at High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry for a MINIMUM of 8 years. :evil:


:evil: Justice for Magdalees looked at electoral registers, for example, from 1954-1964. And looking at High Park in particular, they have been able to show that at least 46 percent of these women from 1954 1964 never got out. :evil:


[Claire McGettrick, JFM] 'A woman in Limerick spent 74 years in Magdalene Laundry. In 1911, they have her there at 18 years of age. It tells a completely different story to McAleese Report. And the way the figures are presented is frankly MISLEADING. It's not respectful of the LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THESE WOMEN.'



Anne Enright · Antigone in Galway · LRB 17 December 2015


To the apparent surprise of the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge, 22 extra bodies were found in the opened grave at High Park. The nuns didn’t appear to know the names of several of the women buried there, listing them by their religious names as Magdalene of St Cecilia or Magdalene of Lourdes, and more than one third of the 155 deaths had never been certified. It was clear the nuns were not used to dealing with outside authorities. Costs were high; they allegedly haggled with the undertaker to ask if he could get three bodies to a coffin. In the end, the remains were cremated, in contravention of Catholic custom, and everyone who heard the news then or read the reports knew, in the silence of their hearts, exactly what was going on, and what had been going on, and what all this meant.


'The woman who opened our eyes' (Investigative Journalist and Producer Mary Raftery)


https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-woman-who-opened-our-eyes-1.1251065


Restoring dignity to Magdalenes August 21st, 2003


Exactly 10 years ago, a firm of Dublin undertakers began a mass exhumation in Drumcondra. As far as they were concerned, the papers were all in order: 133 bodies were to be dug up and ferried to Glasnevin Cemetery, where they would be cremated. It was a small burial plot, with the graves unmarked except for a few plain black crosses. Not exactly a run-of-the-mill job for the undertakers, but not that unusual either. It was only when they discovered 22 additional bodies that alarm bells began ringing. This was a burial site for Magdalenes, women who had effectively been locked up for most of their lives, working for no wages in High Park convent, one of the largest and oldest Magdalene laundries in the country.


By the early 1990s, the laundry had closed and the nuns – the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge – were selling their land to housing developers. The nuns had gambled and lost on the stock exchange and needed cash. The snag was the graveyard for the Magdalene women who had died in their service was on the land they had sold. So the good sisters did a deal with the developers that each would pay half the cost to clear the land of the remains. To exhume a grave, you need an exhumation licence from the Department of the Environment. The nuns were granted such a licence for 133 bodies buried at the High Park plot. The list of names they provided to the department makes for interesting reading.


Twenty-three of the women are listed under the heading “quasi-religious name” – the nuns admitted that they did not know their real names. They called them Magdalene of St Cecilia, Magdalene of Lourdes, Magdalene of St Teresa and so on. Another woman had only a first name. :evil: :mad: :evil:


The nuns told the department that as they had no names, death certificates for these 24 women could not be produced. The department raised no objection, despite the fact that some of the women had died as recently as the late 1960s. :evil: :mad: :evil:


The nuns also said that there were no death certs for a further 34 women. These women at least had names. But the cause and date of death for most of them are listed as “not known”. Some of these women died as recently as the mid-1970s. :evil: :mad: :evil:


It is a criminal offence to fail to register a death that occurs on your premises. This is normally done by a relative. In the case of the Magdalene women, it was the legal duty of the nuns to register their deaths. It would appear that for at least 58 of these women, the nuns failed to do so. :evil: :mad: :evil:


And then there were the additional 22 bodies discovered by the undertakers. All work on the graves had to cease immediately, as these remains were not covered by the exhumation licence. What the Department of the Environment then did beggars belief. :evil: :mad: :evil:


Rather than halting proceedings to investigate, they simply put through an additional licence to allow the nuns to remove all bodies from the graveyard. They didn’t even ask if anyone knew the identities of the extra 22. All but one of the bodies were cremated, destroying any possibility of future identifications. The nuns had been informed that the cost of reburying the remains intact would be considerable, and so they went for the cheaper option. :evil: :mad: :evil:


More from above-mentioned Gravedigger (Barney Curran) - Disinterred Remains from High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry:


“Apologise To Me Before I Die” | Broadsheet.ie


“The nuns were trying to sell the place there and it was big money like so they didn’t want anyone to know what was going on, it was all hush-hush. We were supposed to tell no-one about it.”


“We kept digging and digging until we dug out the whole lot and we ended up with 22 more than they knew were there…they didn’t even know they were there.”


“[We also found] a lot of plaster of paris which was on their wrist and in their arms, their legs, their feet, their ankles, there were broken arms and broken legs, as far as, it seemed to me like. The women were too small and too frail for that kind of work.”


*BBC presenter and author Sue Lloyd-Roberts also wrote a book entitled: The War on Women, where she included Barney Curran's testimony.



Further recommended reading on Magdalene Laundries:


Prof James Smith, Boston College, Blows Away Political Smokescreen of McAleese Report –
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-51.html#post11588907

Prof James Smith, Boston College, Lambasts McAleese Report for Failure to Adequately Reflect MateriaI in Galway Diocesan Archives, and Mischaracterisation… Smith found Financial Records Contradicting McAleese Report’s Conclusions that the Institutions were not Profitable (Subsistence Level) -
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-50.html#post11586785

Prof James Smith, Boston College, Bishop of Galway’s Direct Involvement Places the Catholic Church on the Hook for Redress -
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-50.html#post11586828

Survivor 12 Year Old Magdalene Child Slave - Maureen Sullivan's Tragic Story -
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-57.html#post11641992

12 Year Old Slave Maureen Sullivan came under both schemes - Industrial School and Magdalenes -
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-59.html#post11646157

Letter from Justice For Magdalenes to Ombudsman: ‘Children transferred on a daily, or otherwise repeated temporary, basis to Magdalene Laundries when they should have been receiving education and care in children’s institutions was not acknowledged in the Ryan Report or in the matrix used by the Residential Institutions Redress Board ‘-
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-65.html#post11688776


STARRY: PLEASE READ BELOW

Women referred to the laundries via the courts as an alternative to a prison sentence; Women referred to the laundries by the Courts “On Probation”; and Women referred to the laundries “On Remand” by the Department of Justice
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-65.html#post11690283



Mother and Baby Homes


AND SUPPLEMENT YOUR READING ON MOTHER AND BABY HOMES WITH THIS CASTLEPOLLARD THREAD
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/255981-castlepollard-exclusion-commission-mother-baby-homes-inquiry-107.html


What happened at Bessboro' Mother and Baby Home was criminal neglect...


http://www.irishcentral.com/news/staff-testified-to-horrific-conditions-in-unmarried-mother-homes


:mad: :evil: The doctor who shut down the unmarried mothers home run by the Sacred Heart nuns in Bessborough, County Cork in 1951 left a vivid memoir in which he recounts how dreadful and fatal the conditions were there. :mad: :evil:


Dr. James Deeny, the health board’s Chief Medical Officer, visited Bessborough to investigate the horrific death rate in the home, where 100 out of 180 babies born there had died.


He wrote, “Shortly afterwards, when in Cork, I went to Bessborough. It was a beautiful institution, built on to a lovely old house just before the war, and seemed to be well-run and spotlessly clean.


I marched up and down and around about and could not make out what was wrong; at last I took a notion and stripped all the babies and, unusually for a Chief Medical Adviser, examined them.


:mad: :evil: "Every baby had some purulent infection of the skin and all had green diarrhoea, carefully covered up.' :mad: :evil:


“There was obviously a staphylococcus infection about.


“Without any legal authority I closed the place down and sacked the matron, a nun, and also got rid of the medical officer.


:evil: :evil: :evil: “The deaths had been going on for years. They had done nothing.” :evil: :evil: :evil:


*The mothers at Bessboro' were denied pain relief and basic medical care after birth. :evil:


*The mothers had to cut the institution’s vast sprawling lawns on their hands and knees with scissors. :evil:


*BESSBORO MOTHER AND BABY HOME IS WHERE THE HSE MADE THE SHOCKING CLAIM THAT DEATH RECORDS MAY HAVE BEEN FALSIFIED FOR CHILDREN, SO THE NUNS COULD BROKER THEM FOR CLANDESTINE ADOPTIONS TARGETED AT WEALTHY CLIENTS WITH SOCIAL STATUS BOTH IN IRELAND AND OVERSEAS. :evil:



Midwife June Goulding wrote about her time (during '50s) at Bessboro' in her book The Light in the Window, where she described the home as a secret penitentiary gaol.


Call for inquiry into high mortality rates at mother and baby homes



Mortality rates for three Sacred Heart mother and baby homes during (1944):


Bessborough Sacred Heart mother & baby home, Co Cork – 44.6 per cent,
Sean Ross Abbey Sacred Heart mother & baby home, Co. Tipperary – 33.7 per cent
Castlepollard Sacred Heart mother and baby home, Co. Westmeath – 9.1 per cent



Research carried out in Sean Ross Abbey by Maria Luddy, a Warwick University History professor, shows that the mortality rate for 120 babies born in 1930 was up to 50 per cent. Further figures provided by ARN at Sean Ross Abbey show the mortality rate for the 174 babies born in 1945 was 27.6 per cent.


Figures provided for Bessborough show the home had a mortality rate of 55 per cent in one of the years of 1945 to 1948, according to records detailed by Dr James Deeny, Ireland’s Chief Medical Officer at the time. Deeny also noted that during one particular year, when 180 babies were born, more than 100 of those may have died.


The Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary religios order won't give definitive answers to:


(1) How many children were buried on the sites of their 3 homes (Bessboro', Castlepollard and Sean Ross)?

Or,

(2) If the children were all buried in coffins?



The nuns' answer is: 'The children were all interred in shrouds or coffins, and all deaths had been notified to the relevant authorities.'



Tuam Mother and Baby Home:


How many children (and mothers) are buried at Tuam?


The gravedigger at High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry found an extra 22 bodies of women that the nuns weren't aware of (and I might add the nuns didn't even know their legal names ... the nuns were allowed to cremate all of the women and girls anyway ... to expedite the sale of the property.) Unbelievable! :evil: :mad: :shock2: :evil:


Midwife June Goulding - Light in the Window - Her Year at Bessboro' Mother and Baby Home


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/a-midwife-remembers-the-banished-lives-behind-the-light-in-the-window-1.170737


... an Ireland which, in 1951, allowed the religious orders almost total freedom from accountability.


:evil: An Ireland in which pregnant unmarried women could be "imprisoned" for as long as three years, could be forced to work behind the plough or in steaming laundries, could be set to trimming lawns with their fingers or hauling rollers over newly-tarred macadam on the convent driveway. :evil:


:evil: … things were even worse for those in the hospital where no assistance apart from that of the midwife was allowed - no pain-relief, no episiotomies, no sutures, no healing baths, a doctor who only came to take Wassermann tests or, once, to provide anaesthesia. :evil:


:evil: Permission to use analgesics was refused; tears were left unsutured, deliveries which should have been aided by forceps were allowed do what damage they might. :evil:

:evil: ... of Archbishop John Charles McQuaid who permitted the nuns a kind of moral dispensation so they could falsify the details of birth certificates for children being adopted in the US who would thus be rendered untraceable for ever by their birth mothers. :evil:



Fortunately, I had referenced above thread before the thread splitting purge.
 

StarryPlough01

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
14,690







If you can make it during your lunch break or whatever that'd be great. This dark period of our history should not be airbrushed.


@Socratus, where have you disappeared to?


If people are unable to attend Dublin City Council's meeting on Thursday 13 September, please contact your councillors ~~~


In below link there are 2 X Sample *Proforma Letters* to copy and paste, and then send to YOUR Dublin City Councillor requesting they VOTE AGAINST SALE OF SEAN MCDERMOTT STREET MAGDALENE LAUNDRY 2-ACRE SITE...



http://www.politics.ie/forum/events/266278-keep-magdalene-laundry-victims-not-yours-sell-take-2-13-september-13-00-15-00-next-week-5.html#post12367011



 


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