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Kenny must stop elderly clogging up ED Departments. They should die at home or in Nursing Homes

Hans Von Horn

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The Hospital Crisis must be tackled directly by the Taoiseach himself. It is scandalous that so many old people who are suffering form old age are devouring and blocking up our hospitals, while they wait to die. The are seeking to have their lives artificially extended and are devouring huge resources.

The Old dying bed blockers must be cleared out to let our Hospitals do their work. Age and Health must be a factor of the rationing of Health Care.

Relatives do not wish to care for them at home and refuse to pay for appropriate full time care in Nursing Homes. Every Winter Flu like diseases case clogging of our Hospitals while hoards of whingers demand that people with one leg in the grave are made well again.

One of the big secrets of healthcare in the Western World is that health care is rationed either by waiting or by cost.
Resources are limited and decisions must be made about how limited health resources can be best spent.

Qualy's are used in Health Care to determine how limited resources are to be allocated.

The QALY is a measure of the value of health outcomes. Since health is a function of length of life and quality of life, the QALY was developed as an attempt to combine the value of these attributes into a single index number. The basic idea underlying the QALY is simple: it assumes that a year of life lived in perfect health is worth 1 QALY (1 Year of Life × 1 Utility value = 1 QALY) and that a year of life lived in a state of less than this perfect health is worth less than 1. In order to determine the exact QALY value, it is sufficient to multiply the utility value associated with a given state of health by the years lived in that state. QALYs are therefore expressed in terms of "years lived in perfect health": half a year lived in perfect health is equivalent to 0.5 QALYs (0.5 years × 1 Utility), the same as 1 year of life lived in a situation with utility 0.5 (e.g. bedridden) (1 year × 0.5 Utility). QALYs can then be incorporated with medical costs to arrive at a final common denominator of cost/QALY. This parameter can be used to develop a cost-effectiveness analysis of any treatment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year
 
Last edited:


freewillie

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Have you any particular age in mind where we could just load them on to ships and send out to the Atlantic. Then have a timer ready to open the side of the ship for a mass ending.
 

bob3344

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Have you any particular age in mind where we could just load them on to ships and send out to the Atlantic. Then have a timer ready to open the side of the ship for a mass ending.
Sounds a bit extreme, just set sail for the Arctic & push them out into the snow.

Believe that's what the apaches used to do.
 

Hans Von Horn

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Have you any particular age in mind where we could just load them on to ships and send out to the Atlantic. Then have a timer ready to open the side of the ship for a mass ending.
It is a question of how many more years can be added and what quality of life those years would bring?

Limited resources must be allocated sensibly. Age and Health must be factors in the rationing of Health Care.
 

ruserious

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It is hard to put a price on dignity.

I'll leave it at that for now.
 

GabhaDubh

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Soylent Green
 

Hans Von Horn

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It is hard to put a price on dignity.

I'll leave it at that for now.
Some one must decide who can make best use of the limited amount of health care available.
 

Hans Von Horn

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Many older people go into hospital sick but with a chance of being successfully treated.

For example, take a 78 year old man who goes into hospital after collapsing at home - they try to figure out what is up, realise his heart is failing, but there's a chance of a successful operation. The man stays in hospital for two months, taking up bed-space, while trying to recover sufficiently to have the op. Then he picks up an infection, deteriorates.

He can't go home, he needs constant care - what is the alternative, have him die in agony while a family tries to care for him but doesn't have the knowledge or resources to do so? So he stays in hospital while they hope against hope that he gets sufficiently better to have the op and recover. But he doesn't get better - he deteriorates further, and within three days he is dead.

That was an elderly person clogging up hospital beds. It was also my father.
 

Hans Von Horn

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How much are bullets these days? Maybe gassing them would be cheaper.
Should we have value for money in health care spending?
 

cozzy121

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The Hospital Crisis must be tackled directly by the Taoiseach himself. It is scandalous that so many old people who are suffering form old age are devouring and blocking up our hospitals, while they wait to die. The are seeking to have their lives artificially extended and are devouring huge resources.

The Old dying bed blockers must be cleared out to let our Hospitals do their work. Age and Health must be a factor of the rationing of Health Care.

Relatives do not wish to care for them at home and refuse to pay for appropriate full time care in Nursing Homes. Every Winter Flu like diseases case clogging of our Hospitals while hoards of whingers demand that people with one leg in the grave are made well again.

One of the big secrets of healthcare in the Western World is that health care is rationed either by waiting or by cost.
Resources are limited and decisions must be made about how limited health resources can be best spent.

Qualy's are used in Health Care to determine how limited resources are to be allocated.

The QALY is a measure of the value of health outcomes. Since health is a function of length of life and quality of life, the QALY was developed as an attempt to combine the value of these attributes into a single index number. The basic idea underlying the QALY is simple: it assumes that a year of life lived in perfect health is worth 1 QALY (1 Year of Life × 1 Utility value = 1 QALY) and that a year of life lived in a state of less than this perfect health is worth less than 1. In order to determine the exact QALY value, it is sufficient to multiply the utility value associated with a given state of health by the years lived in that state. QALYs are therefore expressed in terms of "years lived in perfect health": half a year lived in perfect health is equivalent to 0.5 QALYs (0.5 years × 1 Utility), the same as 1 year of life lived in a situation with utility 0.5 (e.g. bedridden) (1 year × 0.5 Utility). QALYs can then be incorporated with medical costs to arrive at a final common denominator of cost/QALY. This parameter can be used to develop a cost-effectiveness analysis of any treatment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year
A Modest Proposal, eh?
 

niall78

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVpN312hYgU


When I read your op, it reminded me of this. :oops:
I vote the OP liquidate his own elderly relatives first to test the theory. Or maybe it's just other peoples elderly relatives he wishes to eliminate?

Why stop with the elderly though? There are so many useless mouths about the place. The physically and mentally disabled for a start. People with chronic health or addiction issues. The sub-normal who wont ever really work. The lazy or stupid who don't have the required drive or brains to succeed in our modern super capitalist economy. Can we put these people into his magic formula to decide if they should live or die?
 

Hans Von Horn

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I vote the OP liquidate his own elderly relatives first to test the theory. Or maybe it's just other peoples elderly relatives he wishes to eliminate?

Why stop with the elderly though? There are so many useless mouths about the place. The physically and mentally disabled for a start. People with chronic health or addiction ideas. The sub-normal who wont ever really work. Can we put these people into his magic formula to decide if they should live or die?

QUALYs are a reality of modern Health Care. Health care is already allocated on the basis of likely outcomes, cost benefits, and quality of life. How could an operation be given to a person who might only get 6 months over some one who might get 15 years extra from the same operation?
 

an innocent abroad

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Don't worry about it, Ireland has it's own way of dealing with it.

Its secret weapon is called "Trollies"...Yep, Trollies and waiting lists, which according to a top consultant is killing 300 patients a year.

So there ye are, we are way ahead of any other country when it comes to killing our elderly.

So don't be worrying your lil head.
 

niall78

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That's why I'm asking should we use bullets or gas. Which method of dispatching them is more economical?
Throwing them of a pier is probably the cheapest option. Do it where there's strong currents out to sea and the burial will be taken care of as well. Double value. A bean counters wet dream.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I suspect the vast majority of people who live in a state with access to healthcare paid for by their taxes would agree that it is a good use of taxpayers money to provide a health service.

If you ask them whether their taxes should be used to pay for Air Corps helicopters to ferry politicians back and forward to their constituencies I think you would find more hesitation.

If hard choices about spending have to be made then they should start with customary profligacies and not with the public expense that taxpayers are happy to pay for in principle via taxation.

I would suggest that most decent people would opt to have swinging cuts to the sector which lives off the state whether that be a chancer attempting to live off disability or a Minister taking the piss out of taxpayers money.

Most would agree that hospitals are a good use of taxpayers money.
 

Hans Von Horn

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That's why I'm asking should we use bullets or gas. Which method of dispatching them is more economical?
If you don't have private health care then you are more likely to be subject to rationing of health care based on age, outcome, and cost in the public system. Otherwise health care would be allocated by lottery.
 


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