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Kill Anglo now? What possible loss would it be?


ballot stuffer

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May 21, 2007
Messages
1,503
Economic commentators like Morgan Kelly and David McWilliams among others have long argued that Anglo should never have been bailed out and should now be wound up.
We consistently hear figures from Dukes and Lenihan of 70 billion and over if we wound up the bank immediately and this seems to be taken at face value.

Why?

Surely government can wash their hands of this mess. Draft emergency legislation to withdraw government support from the bank and let it go bankrupt. Let anyone that was foolish enough to lend money to the bank or have deposits there take the hit. Life goes on without it and we have saved the tax payer a huge bill.
 

inchicore_republican

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Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
671
Economic commentators like Morgan Kelly and David McWilliams among others have long argued that Anglo should never have been bailed out and should now be wound up.
We consistently hear figures from Dukes and Lenihan of 70 billion and over if we wound up the bank immediately and this seems to be taken at face value.

Why?

Surely government can wash their hands of this mess. Draft emergency legislation to withdraw government support from the bank and let it go bankrupt. Let anyone that was foolish enough to lend money to the bank or have deposits there take the hit. Life goes on without it and we have saved the tax payer a huge bill.
I'm sure Tonic will be on soon telling us not to worry that Anglo and NAMA will make the state a healthy profit, come on Tonic give us a laugh on this wet miserable day.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,840
So many splits and allegiances in Irish politics based purely on history. Yet when it comes to looking at the economic historical records to observe clear and repeating economic historical trends, political parties are not interested or do not have the know how to perform such a simple task.
As for McWilliams and Kelly, The Irish people do not listen to the likes of these two commentators. It just proves that the best way to get ignored in Ireland is to be one of the few people talking sense.
These lads should be applauded.
 

smitchy2

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Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,817
The government do not want to renege on borrowerings made by the ECB, Irish Central bank, Insurance firms, pension schemes and other Irish banks.
And for some reason want to mostly payback unsecured borrowers already.

Under EU law you ahve to protect deposit holders up to €100k so they would all have to be paid out. All others deposit holders are also corrected.

I don't really care how long it takes to wind down as long as that is the course of action. Lenihan and FF have changed their position on this as they completely wanted to maintain Anglo as good/bad Bank.
This has changed due to an EU decision rather than a FF decsion.
 

Eurocitizen

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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
808

DaveM

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Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,033
Lenny wants to gaurantee depositors no matter what!

"
MINISTER FOR Finance Brian Lenihan has asked the European Commission to allow the State to guarantee large corporate deposits in Anglo Irish Bank as it embarks on a wind-down of the bank’s business."
"

Who are they?

Lenihan asks EU to allow State guarantee large Anglo deposits - The Irish Times - Tue, Sep 07, 2010
The ECB is the largest. Is it €14bn they have on deposit with Anglo? Are people seriously suggesting we stiff them for this money?!
 

Tommythecommy

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
197
Will it be more than 70 billion in the longer term?

Economic commentators like Morgan Kelly and David McWilliams among others have long argued that Anglo should never have been bailed out and should now be wound up.
We consistently hear figures from Dukes and Lenihan of 70 billion and over if we wound up the bank immediately and this seems to be taken at face value.

Why?

Surely government can wash their hands of this mess. Draft emergency legislation to withdraw government support from the bank and let it go bankrupt. Let anyone that was foolish enough to lend money to the bank or have deposits there take the hit. Life goes on without it and we have saved the tax payer a huge bill.
Will it be more than 70 billion in the longer term?

Anglo are paying almost 4% for deposits.

IF the property market does not recover the losses will grow.

A long wind down preserves more anglo jobs
 

FakeViking

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Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
9,005
The ECB is the largest. Is it €14bn they have on deposit with Anglo? Are people seriously suggesting we stiff them for this money?!
Maybe it would help if our only living saint was able to return M. Trichet's phonecalls and voicemails. He was at a vital party function down in Kilkenny, and may have been, as Dunphy might say, tired and emotional.
 

Tommythecommy

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Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
197
The ECB will feel the least pain

Maybe it would help if our only living saint was able to return M. Trichet's phonecalls and voicemails. He was at a vital party function down in Kilkenny, and may have been, as Dunphy might say, tired and emotional.

They just print more money in the back of the shop

Stiffing them causes them no real pain

It just causes a little more inflation

We are only 1% of the EU economy

Where was the ECB when we needed regulation with our 4% capital reserve ratios?
 

the_rebubblican

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
344
It may be too late to kill Anglo. Lenihan is in Europe and may secretly be negotiating the de facto terms of our economic surrender with the EU. If Trichet wants Anglo to continue so it will... The game may already be up...
 

Tommythecommy

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
197
Lenehan is too deferential to Europe

Lenehan is too deferential to Europe

It is clear that he is taking instructions from Europe

What is good for Europe as a whole is not the same as what is good for Ireland
 

the_rebubblican

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
344
Lenehan is too deferential to Europe

It is clear that he is taking instructions from Europe

What is good for Europe as a whole is not the same as what is good for Ireland
If Trichet or/and Amunia decide that the Irish government is insolvent then we are. We may continue with the charade of an independent nation but that may be decided in Brussels and Frankfurt right now. In fact it may have been decided yesterday. In the fullness of time I'm sure all will be revealed.
 

Tommythecommy

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Jun 10, 2010
Messages
197
The Euro partners would prefer us to pay for the Irish Named foreign owned banks

The Euro partners would prefer us to pay for the Irish Named foreign owned banks.

Lenehan is happy to carry out their wishes

Massive profits were made by temporarily propping up the share prices of the Irish Banks, while the insiders short sold the shares
 

consultant

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Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,097
What is apparent from last night's 'Freefall' is that the government, or more accurately, Lenihan and Cowan, made a huge decision without (a) sufficient facts; (b) any real consideration or appreciation of the consequences and (c) any possibility of buying sufficient time to determine the facts.

Having made the decision, they immediately went into 'spin' mode and also claimed executive privilege to keep everyone in the dark as to the reality of the situation.

For two years they have either been in denial of the consequences of their actions and done nothing to improve the situation or have recognised the consequences and chosen to lie and 'spin' to hang in as long as possible.

There are many posts and threads here that detail the progressive shift in the positioning and claims made by (predominently) Lenihan and which illustrate the u-turns and deception inherrent in the statements made in 2008 and later. 'No' to nationalisation of Anglo, for example.

There is nothing in anything the government partners have said since 2008 that would lead anyone to believe that that are not lying/wrong about the consequences of closing Anglo now.
 

Fantasia

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Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
920
Why exactly is 'saving' Anglo Irish Bank so important

What would happen if the Govt decided just to close the book and walk away from Anglo completely. How many suicides can be attributable directly to this particular banking fiasco? It seems that 'saving' the bank will destroy the country so someone please explain the importance of saving Anglo Irish Bank if it is causing so much grief and anxiety throughout the country. ?
 

White Horse

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Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,064
No one knows anymore.

The government is now only trying to pretend that they didn't make any mistakes and that their strategy was always right.

It is no longer about doing the right thing for the country.
 

HarshBuzz

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Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,935
the timeline of excuses goes something like this:

<Cowen attends private dinner with Anglo chiefs>

'Anglo Irish is very well capitalised, 'tis but a mere liquidity issue.'

'Anglo is systemic' :rolleyes:

'manipulating your year end accounts eh? Good man Seanie!'

<send in the cops>

'ah shure, we might have to stick 1.5bn in there. No big deal'

<no prosecutions>

'we'll nationalise the fecker. Safest thing dontchaknow'

<no prosecutions>

'um, losses could hit 10bn. Max'

<no prosecutions>

'ehhh, losses could be 23bn max'

<no prosecutions>

'can't wind it down immediately, sure that would cost (pick your own number between 35bn and 80bn) x'

<no prosecutions, Seanie makes laughable statement of affairs in the courts>

'umm, ehh, losses will be 29bn to 34bn. That's it, we promise. Trust us, we've been right all along'

<no prosecutions>

it's like being in a Monty Python sketch
 
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