King George III came close to abdicating

General Urko

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King George III, king of Ireland back in the day as well, is perhaps one of the more interesting of all those inbreds and certainly more fascinating than our own beloved Wards, Mongans, McDonaghs etc!petunia

The Beeb has just had an item showing an abdication letter which he wrote but never put forward in the wake of events such as the loss of The Colonies.

A man of Hanoverian background who spoke Béarla as his muttersprache, and appears to have been at least temporarily insane, any comments?

George III's draft abdication letter released - BBC News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom

[video=youtube;o1OvQoChMpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1OvQoChMpY[/video]
 
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Deadlock

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Somewhat off topic - but a very very good film.

It was apparently marketed in the US as the "Madness of King George", dropping the "III" as American focus groups pointed out that American audiences would not want to see part III before parts I and II...
 
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Franzoni

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Great film well worth a look....

As for the madness bit he is supposed to have suffered from porphyria and it runs in families ....supposedly there are accounts of some of the Stuarts suffering from it right down to Queen Victoria's great grandchildren whom George the III would share bloodlines so it spread into European royal families..... ...there was a programme on the BBC a few years ago about it....

Ratio won't be happy.....:D
 

Catalpast

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King George III, king of Ireland back in the day as well, is perhaps one of the more interesting of all those inbreds and certainly more fascinating their our own beloved Wards, Mongans, McDonaghs etc!petunia

The Beeb has just had an item showing an abdication letter which he wrote but never put forward in the wake of events such as the loss of The Colonies.

A man of Hanoverian background who spoke Béarla as his muttersprache, and appears to have been at least temporarily insane, any comments?

George III's draft abdication letter released - BBC News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom

[video=youtube;o1OvQoChMpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1OvQoChMpY[/video]
Brilliant Film!

I have watched three times

- you end up felling sorry for the poor man....:|
 

Catalpast

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Great film well worth a look....

As for the madness bit he is supposed to have suffered from porphyria and it runs in families ....supposedly there are accounts of some of the Stuarts suffering from it right down to Queen Victoria's great grandchildren whom George the III would share bloodlines so it spread into European royal families..... ...there was a programme on the BBC a few years ago about it....

Ratio won't be happy.....:D
Prince William of Gloucester (William Henry Andrew Frederick; 18 December 1941 – 28 August 1972) was a grandson of King George V of the United Kingdom and cousin of Queen Elizabeth II.

A Cambridge graduate, he joined the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, serving in Lagos and Tokyo, before returning to take over royal duties. At this time, he was diagnosed with porphyria,[1] probably hereditary, but died at 30 in an air crash, while piloting his plane in a competition.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_William_of_Gloucester
 

Drogheda445

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He was certainly far less German-orientated than his predecessors anyway. Unlike his father and grandfather, English was indeed his first language, and he apparently never visited Hannover once during his 60 year reign.

He's also rather well known in Ireland for having dashed any hope of a Catholic emancipation during the Act of Union as his Coronation oath explicitly pledged to uphold Anglicanism. In fact the Act of Union was fairly popular amongst Catholics in Ireland precisely because of the promise to end it.

I'm sure Ratio will be along in a minute to remind us of the need for the British to oppose these Hannoverian usurpers and overthrow the current Pretendress. :D
 
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Catalpast

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He was certainly far less German-orientated than his predecessors anyway. Unlike his father and grandfather, English was indeed his first language, and he apparently never visited Hannover once during his 60 year reign.

He's also rather well known in Ireland for having dashed any hope of a Catholic emancipation during the Act of Union as his Coronation oath explicitly pledged to uphold Anglicanism. In fact the Act of Union was fairly popular amongst Catholics in Ireland precisely because of the promise to end it.

I'm Ratio will be along in a minute to remind us of the need for the British to oppose these Hannoverian usurpers and overthrow the current Pretendress. :D
In fact the Act of Union was fairly popular amongst Catholics in Ireland precisely because of the promise to end it.

Daniel O'Connell opposed it from the start.
 

Drogheda445

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In fact the Act of Union was fairly popular amongst Catholics in Ireland precisely because of the promise to end it.

Daniel O'Connell opposed it from the start.
I should have put generally in front of that. I do remember reading that the Catholic Church itself at least mostly approved of it, especially after the experiences of the Ascendancy Parliament and the United Irishmen.
 

GDPR

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I'm Ratio will be along in a minute to remind us of the need for the British to oppose these Hannoverian usurpers and overthrow the current Pretendress. :D
My detestation of Republicanism actually has been growing by the day though I do see Irish Republicanism has something far superior to its Yankee and French cousins. One of the most numinous moments of my life was when I had the honour to be introduced to Rightful Sovereign. I would happily give my life is to thought by doing so it would have the faintest chance of seeing him placed upon the Throne which rightfully belongs to him. The Gael naturally has a Monarchial soul- I think the two major causes of all the neurotic strains in the Southern Irish psyche come one, having a Republic, and two not speaking Irish as the day to day language.

I'm currently reading this brilliant book at the moment and I would challenge anyone to read it and still remain a Jacobin.

The Rule of the Inferior - Metapedia
 

runwiththewind

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I should have put generally in front of that. I do remember reading that the Catholic Church itself at least mostly approved of it, especially after the experiences of the Ascendancy Parliament and the United Irishmen.
The CC were the only organization in Ireland to approve of it, even the OO were against it.
 

Deadlock

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King George III, king of Ireland back in the day as well, is perhaps one of the more interesting of all those inbreds and certainly more fascinating their our own beloved Wards, Mongans, McDonaghs etc!petunia

The Beeb has just had an item showing an abdication letter which he wrote but never put forward in the wake of events such as the loss of The Colonies.

A man of Hanoverian background who spoke Béarla as his muttersprache, and appears to have been at least temporarily insane, any comments?

George III's draft abdication letter released - BBC News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom

[video=youtube;o1OvQoChMpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1OvQoChMpY[/video]
One thing I glean very much in his favour is that the sense of responsibility he felt brought him close leaving public life. Responsibility and probity. Many of today's politicians could learn a lesson.
 

TiredOfBeingTired

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One thing I glean very much in his favour is that the sense of responsibility he felt brought him close leaving public life. Responsibility and probity. Many of today's politicians could learn a lesson.
I don't think George III was over impressed with his successor (George IV) which may have influenced him.
Animosity developed between the prince and his father, who desired more frugal behaviour on the part of the heir apparent. The King, a political conservative, was also alienated by the prince's adherence to Charles James Fox and other radically inclined politicians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_IV


Blackadder portrayal: Drunken, philandering idiot of spectacularly limited grace and intelligence.

Reality: Unfaithful and a drinker, but a noted patron of the arts with no reputation for stupidity.

How accurately does Blackadder reflect history? - BBC News
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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King George III, king of Ireland back in the day as well, is perhaps one of the more interesting of all those inbreds... [1]

The Beeb has just had an item showing an abdication letter which he wrote but never put forward in the wake of events such as the loss of The Colonies. [2]
[1] I realise "in-breeding" is a regular theme when dealing with royalty. It doesn't necessarily apply with George III — and certainly not to his immediate descendants. His queen, Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, gets celebrated in "Black History", because of distant descent from Afonso III of Portugal and Madragana Ben Aloandro. The latter's father was the last Qadi of the Shariʿa court of the Moorish Algarve at the time of the Reconquista.

There is a telling poem celebrating the marriage of George Hanover to Charlotte (8th September 1762):
Descended from the warlike Vandal race,
She still preserves that title in her face.
Tho' shone their triumphs o'er Numidia's plain
And Alusian fields their name retain;
They but subdued the southern world with arms,
She conquers still with her triumphant charms,
O! born for rule — to whose victorious brow
The greatest monarch of the north must bow.
If that's not enough:
the Royal Household itself, at the time of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, referred to both her Asian and African bloodlines in an apologia it published defending her position as head of the Commonwealth.
Nor would I like to argue that George III's porphyria (or whatever other complaint he had) is relevant in the context of this letter, or of the loss of the American Colonies. At this time he appeared in "perfect health", despite the fall from his horse in 1765 (which had induced some temporary symptoms). The full affliction only became evident in the summer of 1788 (which caused the regency crisis).

Whether the deaths of Prince Alfred (August 1782, aged almost 2 years) and Prince Octavius (May 1783, aged 4 years) could have affected this most uxorious and family-friendly king is another matter.

[2] I see several reports of this "previously undisclosed letter", which raises two points:
  • the letter is dated by the BBC website (and so copied by others):
    The unused letter — which includes crossings out, redrafts, blotches and scrawls — was written when the king faced political trouble in March 1783.
  • Let's have no quibbling about events such as the loss of The Colonies. The letter was specifically and entirely the consequence of Lord North losing control of the Commons over the North American wars. North told George in March 1782 of his intention to resign his ministry. The King's speech to parliament, acknowledging that the independence of the American colonies was done-and-dusted, was 5th December 1782.
There should be no great mystery about this letter, except why it suddenly becomes previously undisclosed. It is well-attested in most histories. It appears in The Correspondence of King George the Third from 1760 to December 1783, (see volume 5, page 425). Then it gets noted in pages 42-43 of Andrew O'Shaughnessy's The Men Who Lost America:
When he was finally forced to yield to American independence, George III drafted a letter of abdication to Parliament. Claiming that all his difficulties in America had arisen from ‘‘his scrupulous attachment to the Rights of Parliament,’’ he spoke of his devotion to the British Constitution. He complained of the ‘‘sudden change in Sentiments’’ in what he pointedly referred to as ‘‘one Branch of the Legislature,’’ which had ‘‘totally incapacitated Him from either conducting the War with effect, or from obtaining any Peace but on conditions which would prove destructive to the Commerce as well as essential Rights of the British Nation.’’ With much sorrow, he announced that he found that he could be of no further utility to his country, which had driven him ‘‘to the painful step of quitting it for ever.’’ He therefore resigned ‘‘the Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions appertaining thereto to His Dearly Beloved Son and lawful Successor, George Prince of Wales,’’ who he hoped might be more successful in his endeavors for the prosperity of the British Empire.’’ His letter of abdication was never submitted.
 

Catalpast

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[1] I realise "in-breeding" is a regular theme when dealing with royalty. It doesn't necessarily apply with George III — and certainly not to his immediate descendants. His queen, Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, gets celebrated in "Black History", because of distant descent from Afonso III of Portugal and Madragana Ben Aloandro. The latter's father was the last Qadi of the Shariʿa court of the Moorish Algarve at the time of the Reconquista.

There is a telling poem celebrating the marriage of George Hanover to Charlotte (8th September 1762):

If that's not enough:


Nor would I like to argue that George III's porphyria (or whatever other complaint he had) is relevant in the context of this letter, or of the loss of the American Colonies. At this time he appeared in "perfect health", despite the fall from his horse in 1765 (which had induced some temporary symptoms). The full affliction only became evident in the summer of 1788 (which caused the regency crisis).

Whether the deaths of Prince Alfred (August 1782, aged almost 2 years) and Prince Octavius (May 1783, aged 4 years) could have affected this most uxorious and family-friendly king is another matter.

[2] I see several reports of this "previously undisclosed letter", which raises two points:
  • the letter is dated by the BBC website (and so copied by others):
  • Let's have no quibbling about events such as the loss of The Colonies. The letter was specifically and entirely the consequence of Lord North losing control of the Commons over the North American wars. North told George in March 1782 of his intention to resign his ministry. The King's speech to parliament, acknowledging that the independence of the American colonies was done-and-dusted, was 5th December 1782.

    He therefore resigned ‘‘the Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions appertaining thereto to His Dearly Beloved Son and lawful Successor, George Prince of Wales
There should be no great mystery about this letter, except why it suddenly becomes previously undisclosed. It is well-attested in most histories. It appears in The Correspondence of King George the Third from 1760 to December 1783, (see volume 5, page 425). Then it gets noted in pages 42-43 of Andrew O'Shaughnessy's The Men Who Lost America:
He therefore resigned ‘‘the Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions appertaining thereto to His Dearly Beloved Son and lawful Successor, George Prince of Wales

Presumably he would have then remained the King of Ireland?:confused:
 

The Herren

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King George III, king of Ireland back in the day as well, is perhaps one of the more interesting of all those inbreds and certainly more fascinating their our own beloved Wards, Mongans, McDonaghs etc!petunia

The Beeb has just had an item showing an abdication letter which he wrote but never put forward in the wake of events such as the loss of The Colonies.

A man of Hanoverian background who spoke Béarla as his muttersprache, and appears to have been at least temporarily insane, any comments?

George III's draft abdication letter released - BBC News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom

[video=youtube;o1OvQoChMpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1OvQoChMpY[/video]
 

The Herren

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What are you referring to here ? I cannot understand the connection. Who are these people?
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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In fact the Act of Union was fairly popular amongst Catholics in Ireland precisely because of the promise to end it.

Daniel O'Connell opposed it from the start.
That's as maybe.

The two Union Acts (2nd July and 1st August, 1800) were passed while O'Connell was in his mid-twenties, effectively out of active politics (except with his ambition to become an MP), and struggling to make his mark at the Munster Bar. He only finds his voice after 1811.
 

L'Chaim

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Speaking of royalty, the Queen has not been seen in public for a few weeks now, and there seems to be a media blackout on why this might be.
 


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