Labour for and against Metro North

anewbeginning

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Well they are at it again. Playing the populism card and trying to appeal to as many people as possible without coming down on one side or the other.

Gilmore says Metro North should be put on hold. Others in the front bench say it should go ahead. And everyone else is left confused and wondering which is it.

Of course Gilomore has form on this. He was for the Croke Park agreement and against it.

They have no policy on the bank guarantee other than to oppose it completely, a very populist measure no doubt, but since they were not in government it is easy to be opportunist about it and oppose the guarantee. Had the government not put in place the guanantee, the country would have collapsed and the IMF called in.

Is it any wonder no-one knows what Labour stand for when they are in favour and oppose most things.

Populism without policies in a time of recession, not what the country needs.
 


Grumpy Jack

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Already a thread on this.

Labour transport spokesman Joe Costello was on News at One about Labour policy on Metro North.

Through all his waffling, I took it he was trying to gently row back on Gilmore's comment on Finucane on Saturday and give Labour wriggle room for when they get into govt. It was now up for review like all Transport 21 projects, including Luas BXD, Metro West and the Dart Interconnector (Dart Underground).

But the way he was talking about MN told me he was as clueless as Gilmore on the matter - and was basing his comments on reading Kevin Myers and P.ie.
 

anewbeginning

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Already a thread on this.

Labour transport spokesman Joe Costello was on News at One about Labour policy on Metro North.

Through all his waffling, I took it he was trying to gently row back on Gilmore's comment on Finucane on Saturday and give Labour wriggle room for when they get into govt. It was now up for review like all Transport 21 projects, including Luas BXD, Metro West and the Dart Interconnector (Dart Underground).

But the way he was talking about MN told me he was as clueless as Gilmore on the matter - and was basing his comments on reading Kevin Myers and P.ie.
If Kenny performed the way Costello did and the way Gilmore has waffled on this issue and others such as the Croke Park agreement, he would be slaughtered in the media.

Of course Gilmore can do no wrong.

I still don't know what the Labour position is on MN. But like you say they gave themselves wriggle room. Gilmore has the anti MN side covered, and it's left to Joe Costello and Joan Burton to cover the other side of the argument.

So both sides of the argument covered, great stuff.

Any other issue they have both sides covered? Apart from Croke Park Agreement? And Dail pairings? ie, they never off a pair, yet jump at the chance when there is publicity involved.
 

Roll_On

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does labour have a policy on anything? or just vague aspirations. I got some election propoganda in my letter box a while back from them. I have no idea what they're for and against but alot of opinionated waffle.
 

Thac0man

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Uncanny resembalance:



and....

 

anewbeginning

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So has Gilmore decided to support MN going ahead next year or not? He's been very quiet on the issue since Saturday. Maybe he's waiting to see which way the public mood is going on this one. He's flown the kite, now waiting to see what will happen.

Great leadership there from Gilmore! I hope he doesn't dither like this when in government.

It's easy to play both sides when in opposition, not so easy in government.
 

Grumpy Jack

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So has Gilmore decided to support MN going ahead next year or not? He's been very quiet on the issue since Saturday. Maybe he's waiting to see which way the public mood is going on this one. He's flown the kite, now waiting to see what will happen.

Great leadership there from Gilmore! I hope he doesn't dither like this when in government.

It's easy to play both sides when in opposition, not so easy in government.
Can you stick to the other thread on this as I've just posted an interesting update from Fine Gael deputy leader James Reilly.
 

danger here

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does labour have a policy on anything? or just vague aspirations. I got some election propoganda in my letter box a while back from them. I have no idea what they're for and against but alot of opinionated waffle.
I think this skit sums up Labour succulently ;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHTNTptUEe8]YouTube - Aprés Match: Tonight with Brian Lenihan and Joan Burton[/ame]
 

bmw1

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labour would be for and against -the queen in the aras -the man on the moon-and a chain store called bin ladens explosive gift shop
i think that sums them up but in the best of 'labour speak' maybe or maybe not
 

Gemlarkin

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Labour won't fatten the CIF and PPP speculators while people are dieing in need of Me

labour would be for and against -the queen in the aras -the man on the moon-and a chain store called bin ladens explosive gift shop
i think that sums them up but in the best of 'labour speak' maybe or maybe not
Labour won't fatten the CIF and PPP speculators while people are dieing in need of Medical treatment
 

Grumpy Jack

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Labour won't fatten the CIF and PPP speculators while people are dieing in need of Medical treatment
You mean Labour won't create jobs for some of the 450,000 on the dole - like the 25,000 jobs Joan 'No Brainer' Burton said would be created during construction of Metro North?

Or the 37,000 jobs Fine Gael state will be generated and supported by Metro North along the route in the north Dublin area and the airport?
 

charley

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If the Metro North project goes ahead how many hospital services are Dubliners willing to sacrifice?
 

Grumpy Jack

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If the Metro North project goes ahead how many hospital services are Dubliners willing to sacrifice?
Apples and oranges. And a big fat red herring to boot. That's the type of cheap spoofing guff I've come to expect from Gilmore and others in Labour.

Whether the capital budget and Metro North is cut or not, the health budget will still be cut because it is unaffordable at present. The HSE is gobbling up cash at a rate of knots that cannot be sustained. No one questioned it during the good times but now we have to get value for what money we can spend.

But under the Metro North PPP, capital repayments won't begin until it is operational in 2017 - three years after the deficit is due to be cut to 3% under the four-year plan the Govt will outline in early November. The cuts will all have been made before the final bill for Metro North lands on the Cabinet table.
 

charley

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Why can't it be a fully private railway with no government money?
If its such a good idea surely the costs will be recouped quickly by the private owner?
 

Grumpy Jack

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Why can't it be a fully private railway with no government money?
If its such a good idea surely the costs will be recouped quickly by the private owner?
FF-led governments turned down a private sector metro system for Dublin in the early-1990s and again in early-2000s.

The State wants to own strategic infrastructure - and it should - but because it involves such an enormous capital investment, PPP is the only affordable way to proceed these days.

PPPs are now pretty standard worldwide for these type of projects. Around 20% of the new motorway network was funded through PPPs and will be paid back by tolls over 25 to 35 years. Then, after an upgrade funded by the private operator, the section of motorway reverts to the State.

Think of it like taking out a mortgage to buy or build your house. Unless you won the lotto, you couldn't afford to build or buy without a 25-year mortgages. And Ireland Inc aint winning the lotto any time soon.
 

anewbeginning

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Good points Grumpy.

In addition, the cost of construction drops a minimum of 20% during a recession because of more competitive wages, contractors, etc.

If it was built now and the government did a proper negotiating job and not give it to the most expensive bidder has happened with the NCC, we could save a billion at least.

But I'd be fearful if FF hand out the contracts, as they will hand it to the most expensive bidder who lines their pockets with the most brown envelopes.
 


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