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Labour has one last chance to save face..


Normal Lord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
499
Quite simple the strategy is basically

"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.

Staying put and letting things get even worse will be a disaster for not only the party but the people
 

FrankSpeaks

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
4,625
 

Ryan Tubbs

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
3,660
"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.
The scale of political genius on this website never ceases to amaze me.

How can the Labour Party save itself? By calling an election while it's on 7% in the polls of course!

It's a genius plan! How can Gilmore not have thought of it before??
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,459
Quite simple the strategy is basically

"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.

Staying put and letting things get even worse will be a disaster for not only the party but the people
This isn't a focus group, Eamon.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,476
Quite simple the strategy is basically

"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.

Staying put and letting things get even worse will be a disaster for not only the party but the people

You are not living in the real world of Irish Politics. The Labour party are currently being led by the ultimate political careerists who are now reaping the spoils of office. They will not leave these spoils behind.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,476
The scale of political genius on this website never ceases to amaze me.

How can the Labour Party save itself? By calling an election while it's on 7% in the polls of course!

It's a genius plan! How can Gilmore not have thought of it before??

7% may save the Labour party, were will they be in 3 years time.??
 
D

Deleted member 17573

The scale of political genius on this website never ceases to amaze me.

How can the Labour Party save itself? By calling an election while it's on 7% in the polls of course!

It's a genius plan! How can Gilmore not have thought of it before??
But if they collapsed the government on the right issue they would not be on 7%. Fear is interfering with your judgement, Tubbsy
 

Normal Lord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
499
Politics is what it is and not what it should be. You should do what is right and not what suits a small group of people (ie jobs for them)

Labour would get more than 7% if they walked away, because if they hang on they will be completely wiped out (like the green party) That is why they must leave now. Staying only makes their destruction from politics inevitable.
 

stopdoingstuff

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,897
They could hang themselves for treason. That would definitely restore their honour, and since they have had s.hag all impact on anything, we would not be worse off.
 
B

birthday

Quite simple the strategy is basically

"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.

Staying put and letting things get even worse will be a disaster for not only the party but the people
Have you forgotten that the troika are here? Many seem to think that this is some mirage and that we can return to business
as usual.

For the life of me I cannot understand this attitude.
What did people expect from current government, given the situation that they inherited?
'Has not worked'? What were you expecting? A return to the celtic tiger?

I have voted labour in the past, but if they walk away form the current challenge, I would never consider voting for them again.
We are now five years into this crisis and there is still a belief that we can continue to have high social welfare, low taxes and public expenditure that grossly exceeds tax take.
There is another 10-15 years of adjustment. I read the other day that average salaries exceed those of Germany by around €10,000 and that Germans pay more tax than here.
Sadly, no political group seems to want to tell people the truth and instead flock to the bottom in populist nonsense.
Instead we get 'blueshirt this and blueshirt that' from deluded idiots who similarly forget that we are dependent on external lenders and who make rash promises to an utterly gullible electorate. Where did that get us before?

Of course Labour have made some mistakes and perception of fairness will be critical.
If I were Labour I would crack down unmercifully on croneyism, special interest groups and ditch almost all advisers.
Any advisers remaining would be paid within guidelines. Labour forget that this really angers people and helped to ensure
that they were not re-elected in 1997.

They need to focus on jobs-real jobs and even temporary jobs.
Go around Ireland and see in every shop, hotel, garage that there are non-Irish willing to work for what may be minimum wage or slightly higher. We need to ask ourselves whether this is really sustainable in loner term.
There are only so many jobs in multinationals/ public service so we are going to have to ask ourselves honestly whether we
can afford to pay SW to those who prefer not to work in these jobs.
Will the we be able to borrow for this indefinitely?
We have put off real honest debate for years now and show no signs whatsoever of accepting the reality of the situation that we are in and how over the medium to long term we can emerge from this. Instead populist clowns delude the masses that there is some easy alternative.
Sure we could bring in a tax for those earning over €100,000 and some form of wealth tax but it will go nowhere near to matching our expenditure to national income. Many pretend otherwise. Even if there is some relief on bank debt we will still have to face the truth. Our living standards are going to have to match our national income unless we can generate more national wealth. We are not better or more deserving of people in Latvia, India or Bangladesh. If you want the latest mobile phone (or any mobile phone) in those countries you msut earn money to pay for it.

Labour would be slaughtered if they went to the country now. They may be slaughtered if they remain for the full term anyway but if they stay the course they and pull up their socks they will be able to say that they did their best.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,615
7% may save the Labour party, were will they be in 3 years time.??
If you're Eamonn Gilmore, Ruairi Quinn or Pat Rabbette you don't care about 3 years time because you'll be retiring with a "did the state some service/hard decisions for hard times" speech and taking up your 6 figure pension able to convince yourself you did the right thing.

It's the ambitious young Lab TDs and wannabes that need to act from the bottom up if they hope to achieve anything.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Have you forgotten that the troika are here? Many seem to think that this is some mirage and that we can return to business
as usual.

For the life of me I cannot understand this attitude.
What did people expect from current government, given the situation that they inherited?
'Has not worked'? What were you expecting? A return to the celtic tiger?

I have voted labour in the past, but if they walk away form the current challenge, I would never consider voting for them again.
We are now five years into this crisis and there is still a belief that we can continue to have high social welfare, low taxes and public expenditure that grossly exceeds tax take.
There is another 10-15 years of adjustment. I read the other day that average salaries exceed those of Germany by around €10,000 and that Germans pay more tax than here.
Sadly, no political group seems to want to tell people the truth and instead flock to the bottom in populist nonsense.
Instead we get 'blueshirt this and blueshirt that' from deluded idiots who similarly forget that we are dependent on external lenders and who make rash promises to an utterly gullible electorate. Where did that get us before?

Of course Labour have made some mistakes and perception of fairness will be critical.
If I were Labour I would crack down unmercifully on croneyism, special interest groups and ditch almost all advisers.
Any advisers remaining would be paid within guidelines. Labour forget that this really angers people and helped to ensure
that they were not re-elected in 1997.

They need to focus on jobs-real jobs and even temporary jobs.
Go around Ireland and see in every shop, hotel, garage that there are non-Irish willing to work for what may be minimum wage or slightly higher. We need to ask ourselves whether this is really sustainable in loner term.
There are only so many jobs in multinationals/ public service so we are going to have to ask ourselves honestly whether we
can afford to pay SW to those who prefer not to work in these jobs.
Will the we be able to borrow for this indefinitely?
We have put off real honest debate for years now and show no signs whatsoever of accepting the reality of the situation that we are in and how over the medium to long term we can emerge from this. Instead populist clowns delude the masses that there is some easy alternative.
Sure we could bring in a tax for those earning over €100,000 and some form of wealth tax but it will go nowhere near to matching our expenditure to national income. Many pretend otherwise. Even if there is some relief on bank debt we will still have to face the truth. Our living standards are going to have to match our national income unless we can generate more national wealth. We are not better or more deserving of people in Latvia, India or Bangladesh. If you want the latest mobile phone (or any mobile phone) in those countries you msut earn money to pay for it.

Labour would be slaughtered if they went to the country now. They may be slaughtered if they remain for the full term anyway but if they stay the course they and pull up their socks they will be able to say that they did their best.
You're far too sensible for this place.
 

Tough Paddy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
11,505
Quite simple the strategy is basically

"Bring the Government down" walk away
Let the people decide, 2 years in and it's been a huge mess and it has not worked.

Staying put and letting things get even worse will be a disaster for not only the party but the people
To what end?! To put Fianna Fail back in to power?! :roll:
 

turdsl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
26,085
Labour as it stands has become a right wing party,It is now more right than Fine Gael, that is their choice.We do not know if any of their members stand by the ideals of Connolly,
The amount of TDs does not matter, it is the direction the members take.If the grassroots
still support Gilmore and Rabbitte the government will last, if not it will be gone in a few months.
 

Normal Lord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
499
Politics is what it is and not what it should be. You should do what is right and not what suits a small group of people (ie jobs for them)

Labour would get more than 7% if they walked away, because if they hang on they will be completely wiped out (like the green party) That is why they must leave now. Staying only makes their destruction from politics inevitable.
 

Normal Lord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
499
Have you forgotten that the troika are here? Many seem to think that this is some mirage and that we can return to business
as usual.

For the life of me I cannot understand this attitude.
What did people expect from current government, given the situation that they inherited?
'Has not worked'? What were you expecting? A return to the celtic tiger?

I have voted labour in the past, but if they walk away form the current challenge, I would never consider voting for them again.
We are now five years into this crisis and there is still a belief that we can continue to have high social welfare, low taxes and public expenditure that grossly exceeds tax take.
There is another 10-15 years of adjustment. I read the other day that average salaries exceed those of Germany by around €10,000 and that Germans pay more tax than here.
Sadly, no political group seems to want to tell people the truth and instead flock to the bottom in populist nonsense.
Instead we get 'blueshirt this and blueshirt that' from deluded idiots who similarly forget that we are dependent on external lenders and who make rash promises to an utterly gullible electorate. Where did that get us before?

Of course Labour have made some mistakes and perception of fairness will be critical.
If I were Labour I would crack down unmercifully on croneyism, special interest groups and ditch almost all advisers.
Any advisers remaining would be paid within guidelines. Labour forget that this really angers people and helped to ensure
that they were not re-elected in 1997.

They need to focus on jobs-real jobs and even temporary jobs.
Go around Ireland and see in every shop, hotel, garage that there are non-Irish willing to work for what may be minimum wage or slightly higher. We need to ask ourselves whether this is really sustainable in loner term.
There are only so many jobs in multinationals/ public service so we are going to have to ask ourselves honestly whether we
can afford to pay SW to those who prefer not to work in these jobs.
Will the we be able to borrow for this indefinitely?
We have put off real honest debate for years now and show no signs whatsoever of accepting the reality of the situation that we are in and how over the medium to long term we can emerge from this. Instead populist clowns delude the masses that there is some easy alternative.
Sure we could bring in a tax for those earning over €100,000 and some form of wealth tax but it will go nowhere near to matching our expenditure to national income. Many pretend otherwise. Even if there is some relief on bank debt we will still have to face the truth. Our living standards are going to have to match our national income unless we can generate more national wealth. We are not better or more deserving of people in Latvia, India or Bangladesh. If you want the latest mobile phone (or any mobile phone) in those countries you msut earn money to pay for it.

Labour would be slaughtered if they went to the country now. They may be slaughtered if they remain for the full term anyway but if they stay the course they and pull up their socks they will be able to say that they did their best.
People like Colm Keaveney, Patrick Nulty at least they had the balls to walk away and stand for what they feel is right

This is a joke surely
You are basically saying that a rather small bunch of people need to "put their needs/salary" first and forget about those who elected them (who do not support their stance or being in Government)

I know politics is disappointing in the real world, it is a bit of an insult to democracy (it falls far short of this)
But this post is about as anti democratic as you can get

And I for once condemn such as attitude
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,459
Have you forgotten that the troika are here? Many seem to think that this is some mirage and that we can return to business
as usual.

For the life of me I cannot understand this attitude.
What did people expect from current government, given the situation that they inherited?
'Has not worked'? What were you expecting? A return to the celtic tiger?

I have voted labour in the past, but if they walk away form the current challenge, I would never consider voting for them again.
We are now five years into this crisis and there is still a belief that we can continue to have high social welfare, low taxes and public expenditure that grossly exceeds tax take.
There is another 10-15 years of adjustment. I read the other day that average salaries exceed those of Germany by around €10,000 and that Germans pay more tax than here.
Sadly, no political group seems to want to tell people the truth and instead flock to the bottom in populist nonsense.
Instead we get 'blueshirt this and blueshirt that' from deluded idiots who similarly forget that we are dependent on external lenders and who make rash promises to an utterly gullible electorate. Where did that get us before?

Of course Labour have made some mistakes and perception of fairness will be critical.
If I were Labour I would crack down unmercifully on croneyism, special interest groups and ditch almost all advisers.
Any advisers remaining would be paid within guidelines. Labour forget that this really angers people and helped to ensure
that they were not re-elected in 1997.

They need to focus on jobs-real jobs and even temporary jobs.
Go around Ireland and see in every shop, hotel, garage that there are non-Irish willing to work for what may be minimum wage or slightly higher. We need to ask ourselves whether this is really sustainable in loner term.
There are only so many jobs in multinationals/ public service so we are going to have to ask ourselves honestly whether we
can afford to pay SW to those who prefer not to work in these jobs.
Will the we be able to borrow for this indefinitely?
We have put off real honest debate for years now and show no signs whatsoever of accepting the reality of the situation that we are in and how over the medium to long term we can emerge from this. Instead populist clowns delude the masses that there is some easy alternative.
Sure we could bring in a tax for those earning over €100,000 and some form of wealth tax but it will go nowhere near to matching our expenditure to national income. Many pretend otherwise. Even if there is some relief on bank debt we will still have to face the truth. Our living standards are going to have to match our national income unless we can generate more national wealth. We are not better or more deserving of people in Latvia, India or Bangladesh. If you want the latest mobile phone (or any mobile phone) in those countries you msut earn money to pay for it.

Labour would be slaughtered if they went to the country now. They may be slaughtered if they remain for the full term anyway but if they stay the course they and pull up their socks they will be able to say that they did their best.
And breathe :)
 

Tough Paddy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
11,505
People like Colm Keaveney, Patrick Nulty at least they had the balls to walk away and stand for what they feel is right

This is a joke surely
You are basically saying that a rather small bunch of people need to "put their needs/salary" first and forget about those who elected them (who do not support their stance or being in Government)

I know politics is disappointing in the real world, it is a bit of an insult to democracy (it falls far short of this)
But this post is about as anti democratic as you can get

And I for once condemn such as attitude
Michael Martin sends his regards!
 
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