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Labour supporters (86%) losing faith/disillusioned : how can it stop its free fall?


Con Gallagher

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May 25, 2010
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2,413
The most recent red c poll shows labour on 13% - which is rather meaningless on its own as demonstrating a crisis in the party.

Underneath that, is the rather startling statistic that only 14% of it supporters state they are loyal to the party (ie definitely vote for them in the next election). 52% of labour voters are becoming disillusioned, while 34% are losing faith with the party. That is a very flaky/unhappy support base (many might vote labour again but it is far from certain).

So what can be done?
- ditch Gilmore
- actually govern in line with the constitution ie collectively, rather than retreating into their own departments
- review the PfG to prioritise labour policies
- legislate for civil marriage equality and abortion (in line with x) immediately to at least demonstrate their commitment to socially progressive policies
- generation shift by pension ing off Rabitte, Quinn
- change the electoral system to a list based one so they do not suffer a pr stv wipeout
- lower the voting age to 16, bringing in 100,000 new voters who are more likely to vote for them
- demand Reilly is sacked
- burn the senior bondholders
- take the average industrial wage and only vouched expenses
- actually keep its election promises?*

Which of the above are possible, or even desirable?

What can labour actually do to restore the faith if their own supporters, as well as gain new ones?



* note the question mark, it signifies that a question is asked rather than constituting advice.
 
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Hewson

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Apr 29, 2009
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8,338
Get rid of Gilmore, Rabbitte and Quinn.

Don't make promises they can't/won't keep.

Become a socialist party or stop pretending they are.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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14,327
Labour needs to be the party of working people. That should be everyone who works for a living. There are plenty of attention grabbing, virtually revenue neutral, policies we could propose.

A tax deduction for child care should be top of the list. Reform the dole to make it easier to take short term work. Better public transport.

Focus policies on making work easier and more rewarding.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Mar 8, 2005
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Underneath that, is the rather startling statistic that only 12% of it supporters state they will vote for them in the next election.
I think if you look at it again, it doesn't actually say that. You need to be careful in polls, not to think you're seeing the answers to questions that weren't asked.

- actually keep its election promises?
The funny thing is that most of the other stuff you suggested Labour do were NOT Labour election promises.
 

Hewson

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Marvar88

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Dec 13, 2010
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Would it be safe to assume you're a loyal FG supporter?
Yes I do support FG.

So I don't really care what happens to labour though I do not detest them like I do SF and FF. You are no Labour supporter. Quite the opposite in fact. So I do not know why anyone would give a toss about your opinion on what they should do.

Also your suggestions were absolutely terrible. Some of the worst ideas I have ever seen. Well done on that.
 

oggy

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Labour are like an old stage prop taken out now and again, dusted down and used in a production that flops and thrown back to gather dust again. FG really are the same but they always had B actors that carried a production for a month instead of the two months expected
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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Labour needs to be the party of working people. That should be everyone who works for a living. There are plenty of attention grabbing, virtually revenue neutral, policies we could propose.
Michael O'Leary works... works hard too...

A tax deduction for child care should be top of the list. Reform the dole to make it easier to take short term work. Better public transport.
Should the aim not be to try and make child care cheaper instead of introducing more bureaucracy via tax deductions and allowances and all the other crap the 'state' loves to get involved in...

More bureaucracy and state interference is not the answer imo...

It was state interference in the property market which contributed hugely to that particular mess...

Focus policies on making work easier and more rewarding.
Sounds good... My fear however, is that it's about paying people more despite the fact that while Ireland's competitiveness has improved in recent years, we're still not competitive enough...

If on the other hand the idea is to increase the gap between what people can get on welfare and benefits and what they can earn on the minimum wage (without raising the minimum wage)... then it's a great plan...
 

oggy

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Yes I do support FG.

So I don't really care what happens to labour though I do not detest them like I do SF and FF. You are no Labour supporter. Quite the opposite in fact. So I do not know why anyone would give a toss about your opinion on what they should do.

Also your suggestions were absolutely terrible. Some of the worst ideas I have ever seen. Well done on that.
Bet you are like all FG supporters when canvassers come to the door, whatever happens do not admit to voting FG
 

wombat

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,940
Labour needs to be the party of working people. That should be everyone who works for a living. There are plenty of attention grabbing, virtually revenue neutral, policies we could propose.

A tax deduction for child care should be top of the list. Reform the dole to make it easier to take short term work. Better public transport.

Focus policies on making work easier and more rewarding.
I think that the last sentence could be a key. I'm not a supporter but my perception would be that they are more a party of the 2 teacher family than of the industrial worker.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,240
Labour needs to be the party of working people. That should be everyone who works for a living. There are plenty of attention grabbing, virtually revenue neutral, policies we could propose.

A tax deduction for child care should be top of the list.
How would that be revenue neutral?

Reform the dole to make it easier to take short term work.
I agree, but they'd likely get savaged in the media for supposedly being harsh and uncaring.

Better public transport.
Cost?


Anyway on this point in general, as a Labour supporter you'll have a fairly good idea who the missing 7% are since the election. Gilmore had quite brilliantly cultivated a segment of the electorate who are still utterly wedded to the notion that this whole budgetary mess can be sorted out by hitting "someone else". It doesn't really matter who the "someone else" might be. And that segment of the electorate were always gonna desert any government party as soon as any difficult decisions were made. This subset of voters stuck with FF throughout the bubble years, they went to Labour between 2008/2009, and they're now gullibly swallowing up what SF tell them. At some point you'd like to think those voters will cop on to the fact that everyone takes them for a ride and just uses their stupidity, but there's no sign of it yet.
 
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blokesbloke

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Jan 13, 2011
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23,296
It would be safer to assume he's a pr!ck.
Could you not just say you disagree with him - and crucially - say why? The personal insults on this site are getting very dreary and add zero to the debate.
 

blokesbloke

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Jan 13, 2011
Messages
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Labour are like an old stage prop taken out now and again, dusted down and used in a production that flops and thrown back to gather dust again. FG really are the same but they always had B actors that carried a production for a month instead of the two months expected
I can't say FF are exactly a sell-out show at the moment lovely. Too busy lurking off-stage looking nervously over at the Shinners!
 

Hewson

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Messages
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Could you not just say you disagree with him - and crucially - say why? The personal insults on this site are getting very dreary and add zero to the debate.
He has form.

Leave it at that.
 

seabhcan

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Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
Michael O'Leary works... works hard too...



Should the aim not be to try and make child care cheaper instead of introducing more bureaucracy via tax deductions and allowances and all the other crap the 'state' loves to get involved in...

More bureaucracy and state interference is not the answer imo...

It was state interference in the property market which contributed hugely to that particular mess...



Sounds good... My fear however, is that it's about paying people more despite the fact that while Ireland's competitiveness has improved in recent years, we're still not competitive enough...

If on the other hand the idea is to increase the gap between what people can get on welfare and benefits and what they can earn on the minimum wage (without raising the minimum wage)... then it's a great plan...
If you look at the cost of childcare, vs the wage costs etc, child care is not expensive. It is a labour intensive industry, and people need to be paid for their work.

However, child care is an unavoidable cost of employment. It should be tax deductible. In most eu countries it is, or is state funded in some other ways.

When you consider that child care costs more than most mortgages, you can see that for many people working isn't an option. That takes women out of the workforce during their most productive years and makes their skills unavailable. It doesn't make economic sense.
 
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