Labour's Mission Impossible, or not?

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,759
So on another thread just now the root cause of our problems was IMHO identified as having piss poor opposition - basically the government parties FF and FG know they'll always be in office so have no fear of ever being held to account.

The background to this may well lie in the fact that we're just not used to "opposition parties" FF and FG pretended to be in opposition for 90 years but it was just a game of musical chairs. Labour were so keen to be potential coalition partners that they never developed principles.

Labour are the natural party of opposing FFG's recovery for the few policies, but have become a spent force led by an effete wee man with too much baggage and fingerprints all over FG's austerity government's policies. They soiled their bibs over 5 years at the trough along with FG.

There's HUGE potential for a Labour 2.0 in the next election, but they'd have to do some serious house keeping in the meantime. I think Labour 2.0 would need to:

  • ditch all Ministers from the last government
  • cut its ties with the unions
  • assemble a good potential "opposition" bench with genuine talent and a track record in business and public service interest in
  • go to the people in 2018 or 19 with a real plan

The country REALLY needs a strong opposition - one capable of holding the government to account and even be that government but remaining firmly in the mode that they owe nothing to anybody and know they'll be held to account 5 years leter.
 


farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,930
  • cut its ties with the unions
  • assemble a good potential "opposition" bench with genuine talent and a track record in business...

Sounds like Blair's New Labour. Worked for him...
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
If Labour 'cuts its ties with the unions', then the last 5-6% of support they have is gone. Rather self-defeating.

Not really sure you have thought this one through, or even understand the history of the LP in Ireland.
 

brughahaha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
So on another thread just now the root cause of our problems was IMHO identified as having piss poor opposition - basically the government parties FF and FG know they'll always be in office so have no fear of ever being held to account.

The background to this may well lie in the fact that we're just not used to "opposition parties" FF and FG pretended to be in opposition for 90 years but it was just a game of musical chairs. Labour were so keen to be potential coalition partners that they never developed principles.

Labour are the natural party of opposing FFG's recovery for the few policies, but have become a spent force led by an effete wee man with too much baggage and fingerprints all over FG's austerity government's policies. They soiled their bibs over 5 years at the trough along with FG.

There's HUGE potential for a Labour 2.0 in the next election, but they'd have to do some serious house keeping in the meantime. I think Labour 2.0 would need to:

  • ditch all Ministers from the last government
  • cut its ties with the unions
  • assemble a good potential "opposition" bench with genuine talent and a track record in business and public service interest in
  • go to the people in 2018 or 19 with a real plan

The country REALLY needs a strong opposition - one capable of holding the government to account and even be that government but remaining firmly in the mode that they owe nothing to anybody and know they'll be held to account 5 years leter.

Problem is Labours plan is identical to FFs and FGs

Labour are not opposition ...the opposition is now SF , no matter how much that pains you , and your OP doesnt make sense for this very simple reason

Political parties , no matter how much P.ies refuses to accept it, are dependent on active local party members ...FF , FG and SF have them .....Labour dont and if they cut their ties to the unions they will have even fewer.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,759
Problem is Labours plan is identical to FFs and FGs

Labour are not opposition ...the opposition is now SF , no matter how much that pains you , and your OP doesnt make sense for this very simple reason

Political parties , no matter how much P.ies refuses to accept it, are dependent on active local party members ...FF , FG and SF have them .....Labour dont and if they cut their ties to the unions they will have even fewer.
I'd kind of agree to a point, but for the time being SF's past is a barrier for many potential voters.

The thought that we could face another decade or two of FFG's game of musical chairs waiting for SF to overcome it's past is very depressing, to me anyway. Hence the wish that Labour could pull something out of the bag.
 
Last edited:

johnny365

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,115
Dump Howlin his a poor leader and doesn’t get much traction from the public. Alan Kelly like him or hate him is the ideal man to drag the party up.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,759
Dump Howlin his a poor leader and doesn’t get much traction from the public. Alan Kelly like him or hate him is the ideal man to drag the party up.
Howlin is a joke of a leader. He's firmly part of the dream team that destroyed Labour, yet like Napoleon, every time I hear him speak it's to re-write history to excuse the mistakes they made.
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
3,087
They could have been so much more but personal enrichment and advancement were pursued over long term achievements.

What exactly, for example, outside of constantly being elected has Michael D Higgins achieved? Something to do with the TV and a luvvie film board which endeared him to some.

Beyond that, what, exactly, has he done to warrant the admiration? Look at his wikipedia page, he gets elected, a lot but doesn't seem to have much of note under his belt?

Joan Burton really jumped the shark with her evidence at the Jobstown trials as well and then we have AK47, a man who is so self absorbed he freely admits to lusting after power.

As for the rest, meh.
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,328
More online fantasy.....Labour are finished as a serious political force...
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
3,087
Howlin is a joke of a leader. He's firmly part of the dream team that destroyed Labour, yet like Napoleon, every time I hear him speak it's to re-write history to excuse the mistakes they made.
I'd say something but would have literally dozens of posters lining up to tell me his personal life is none of our business.

As far as I am concerned, it is, but Howlin is far too pointless for me to bother saying any more.
 

brughahaha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
I'd kind of agree to a point, but for the time being SF's past is a barrier for many potential voters.

The thought that we could face another decade or two of FFG's game of musical chairs is very depressing, to me anyway.
Oh couldnt agree more ...just what do these parties have to do before people stop voting for them ? Reenact Herods firstborn policy ? seems that way , which annoys me more than a little
 

Travis Bickle

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
1,294
I always find it pathetic when the Fianna Gaelers bring up the unions, public servants with cushy numbers, dem dat want everything for nothing and the health service being the fault of the unions and by association Labour, when discussing Labour.

Every single complaint the Fianna Gaelers have can be put right at their own front door.
The policies that have us beholden to certain interests are at the feet of FF/FG. FG could have tore down and rebuilt the health service in 2011, but chose not to. They also could have stuck to promises rather than getting up to old crooked tricks and bedding FF first sign of bad polls.
It's like during the last gasps of the Celtic Tiger boom; 'a vote for Labour will bring the IMF to the door' they said :)

Labour need get rid of their upper middle class think tanks and rebuild from the grass roots up. Stick to their guns and never, NEVER take a coalition position with FF/FG.
 

brughahaha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
They could have been so much more but personal enrichment and advancement were pursued over long term achievements.

What exactly, for example, outside of constantly being elected has Michael D Higgins achieved? Something to do with the TV and a luvvie film board which endeared him to some.

Beyond that, what, exactly, has he done to warrant the admiration? Look at his wikipedia page, he gets elected, a lot but doesn't seem to have much of note under his belt?

Joan Burton really jumped the shark with her evidence at the Jobstown trials as well and then we have AK47, a man who is so self absorbed he freely admits to lusting after power.

As for the rest, meh.
As Minister for Communications he set up TG4 ....in his constituency ...but its only cute hoorism when FF or Fg do it and not when Labour do it
 

Travis Bickle

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
1,294
As Minister for Communications he set up TG4 ....in his constituency ...but its only cute hoorism when FF or Fg do it and not when Labour do it
To be fair it's not like TG4/RTE advertise jobs in the paper anyway.
He did complain when RTE didn't tender out the afternoon show contract and simply gave it to an (in house) "independent" production company.
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
I'd give Labour the credit for the SSM referendum. Most of the progressive social legislation that has been passed in this country has been done under their watch.

It would be churlish to ignore that.

Personally, I don't think they are dead. I think they need another few years of rebuilding and a new leader. Let's face it, it's not like there are many (outside of disorganised and disunited Indos) options.

I've never voted Labour, probably never will that being said.
 

johnny365

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,115
Howlin is a joke of a leader. He's firmly part of the dream team that destroyed Labour, yet like Napoleon, every time I hear him speak it's to re-write history to excuse the mistakes they made.
Most grass roots members see Howlin as a busted flush. The manner in which he was elected doesn’t help his image either. His a weak performer that both Leo and Martin could walk all over. Howlin is just not leadership material.

Alan Kelly would increase the profile of the party, his principled and would be well able to take on Leo and Martin, everything Howlin seems unable to do.
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,930
Political parties , no matter how much P.ies refuses to accept it, are dependent on active local party members ...FF , FG and SF have them .....Labour dont and if they cut their ties to the unions they will have even fewer.
And party membership is based on blind loyalty vs ideals or ability. Which means new parties fail to get bigger while old parties fail to change. The electorate is presented with the same old options and grudgingly decides better the devil you know.

What a depressing vicious circle :(. Zombie democracy.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,759
Oh couldnt agree more ...just what do these parties have to do before people stop voting for them ? Reenact Herods firstborn policy ? seems that way , which annoys me more than a little
The point is lazy voters use SF's past and Labour's failures as an excuse to vote for the same FFG candidates over and over again.

Labour has some "brand recognition" value but crap politicians - Fat Rabit, iPhoney Joany, the Leprechaun in the Aras, AK47, etc.

Sadly the term New Labour has very negative connotations from the UK too, but Labour as a name still does resonate for me - I work, I pay taxes...if only that was what and who Labour stood for - not just abortion and same sex marriages.
 

Travis Bickle

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
1,294
My local Labour branch had a upper middle class young bright light parachuted in by HQ from way outside our postal code. The writing was on the wall.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top