Land of Mine

Rafael Rose

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[video=youtube;GafFkkl0xt0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GafFkkl0xt0[/video]

In the last years of the German occupation of Denmark 1940 to 1945. The Germans deployed about 1.500.000 Antitank- and anti personnel mines in Denmark. Most of them were placed at the coastlines, but many were also placed around German strong points inland. Compared with the amount of landmines deployed in other occupied countries in Europe. This amount of mines is quite small.

From the 11. May 1945 and 4 and ½ month forwards. German Pioneers (Minenkommando) cleared 1.402.000 mines in Denmark. By doing that. They had a loss of 149 killed, 165 seriously injured and 167 slightly injured (and even with the term slightly injured. It could mean the loss of an arm or a leg) that was out of a force of about 2600 Pioneers. During the clearing operation only 3 of 52 the Danish officers who supervised the operations were injured.

After the mine plans were reviewed if available, the distance from the poles was measured in meters and by degrees to the corners of the field. When the outer lines of the minefield were located the mine plan was again reviewed to further identify single mines and their type. If mines were sticking up above the ground clearing was actually quite easy, but if mines were buried or under drifted sand or vegetation it was much more difficult. The technique basically consisted of a person getting on their knees or flat on their stomach and crawling along the ground with a mine probe (a 2 meter long steel rod) or a bayonet to "detect" for mines. Mine detectors were not that effective as most of the German mines were made of wood, concrete, plastic or glass.





When a mine was located the dirt around it was carefully removed. If the mine was considered to be safe to deactivate or remove fully it was done right away, otherwise it was blown up in place. When a minefield was declared clear a control run was done against it using German troops or vehicles, depending on the type of field. When a pure anti personnel minefield was declared clear German troops formed a line at the end of the now (hopefully) cleared minefield and they marched through it. This was a standing order to insure that there were not any "forgotten" mines.



This was contrary to the Geneva Convention 1929 regarding the treatment of prisoners of war:

Art. 32. It is forbidden to employ prisoners of war on unhealthy or dangerous work. Conditions of work shall not be rendered more arduous by disciplinary measures. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/305-430033?OpenDocument
Most of these Germans were just young boys who had been drafted in to the Army at the end of the war and many never even saw active service, they were starved, beaten regularly and forced to wear white armbands to distinguish themselves from the rest of the population.

So did Denmark commit a war crime by forcing them to do this dangerous work?
 


users

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Strawberry

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Sounds like they did indeed break the Geneva Conventions. Who'd a thunk it? Benign, democratic little Denmark, I suppose all countries have skeletons of one kind or another in their closet.
 

GDPR

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Sounds like they did indeed break the Geneva Conventions. Who'd a thunk it? Benign, democratic little Denmark, I suppose all countries have skeletons of one kind or another in their closet.
This is old news. From 1995 : the French did the same.
Scandal of PoWs sent to deaths on minefields | The Independent

I suspect two things

(a) a lot of people grew up with the "Warlord" comics version of WW2, bless them. Everyone behaved very badly. However occupied countries had no love of Germans, you can take that to the bank. Would you be surprised?

(b) motivations of people making a huge big deal of this need to be examined. Some are pure, some are .... not.
 

silverharp

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The Allies had mine clearing tanks why didnt they use them?

[video=youtube;oQK_a4aGNuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQK_a4aGNuc[/video]
 

Mushroom

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The Allies had mine clearing tanks why didnt they use them?

Possibly because they were using them all somewhere else in Europe. You'll recall the comment in the OP that .... "Compared with the amount of landmines deployed in other occupied countries in Europe this amount of mines is quite small."
 

Catalpast

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It may have been illegal as they were POWS

- but it was standard practise at clearing minefields

Even today it is very dangerous work
 

Rafael Rose

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It may have been illegal as they were POWS

- but it was standard practise at clearing minefields

Even today it is very dangerous work
I think it still would have been illegal even if they weren't POW's, it's the fact that they were POW's which makes it a war crime but it's still a crime to make civilians walk through a minefield.
 

Rafael Rose

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This is old news. From 1995 : the French did the same.
Scandal of PoWs sent to deaths on minefields | The Independent

I suspect two things

(a) a lot of people grew up with the "Warlord" comics version of WW2, bless them. Everyone behaved very badly. However occupied countries had no love of Germans, you can take that to the bank. Would you be surprised?

(b) motivations of people making a huge big deal of this need to be examined. Some are pure, some are .... not.
Yes it is old news, it's from 1945. That's why it's in the history section.

France were at it too, thousands were killed and maimed and also in Norway. The Danes however were Probably the best minefield clearers in the world.

Did you learn history from these said comic books if you make sweeping statements like that as they hold no credibility, may I suggest some reading on the subject. Not everyone hated the Germans.
 
D

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Sounds like they did indeed break the Geneva Conventions. Who'd a thunk it? Benign, democratic little Denmark, I suppose all countries have skeletons of one kind or another in their closet.
Up until recently, the scandis enjoyed a scrap.
 
D

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The Danes took on the Prussians didn't they?

The Brits tried to broker a peace.

They weren't 'aving none of it, yermen the Danes.
I believe they did, but the Prussians were smashing everything that was put in front of them at that time.

Tough bastewards the Scandinavians. Now look at them? Pu$$y whipped!
 

storybud1

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Sounds like they did indeed break the Geneva Conventions. Who'd a thunk it? Benign, democratic little Denmark, I suppose all countries have skeletons of one kind or another in their closet.
Danes are quite proud of their Country and last year stood up to yet another German bully called Merkel when they funnily enough decided to control their own borders. I have been there a few times (you will fit right in quickly) , it is a bit dull like here but some great beer halls and the people are very friendly like here.

The 500 maimed and killed were invaders, it is that simple, better the invading fookers that laid the mines get killed than the local kids down the road. Not sure that revisionist human rights is apt to the context at the time as six million murdered Jews would probably have little problem with Denmarks decision if they were alive.

The EU AKA Merkel is already threatening Denmark and the Eastern Countries etc to begin opening their borders, same sh1t just economics replacing tanks,
 

GDPR

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Sad pIesters


[video=youtube;eQGiBT4i0p0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQGiBT4i0p0[/video]
 

Strawberry

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Danes are quite proud of their Country and last year stood up to yet another German bully called Merkel when they funnily enough decided to control their own borders. I have been there a few times (you will fit right in quickly) , it is a bit dull like here but some great beer halls and the people are very friendly like here.

The 500 maimed and killed were invaders, it is that simple, better the invading fookers that laid the mines get killed than the local kids down the road. Not sure that revisionist human rights is apt to the context at the time as six million murdered Jews would probably have little problem with Denmarks decision if they were alive.

The EU AKA Merkel is already threatening Denmark and the Eastern Countries etc to begin opening their borders, same sh1t just economics replacing tanks,
Its not revisionist human rights, the Geneva Conventions were in force at the time. Its also not acceptable to abuse the memory of six million murdered Jews to justify human rights abuses against others, even if they were German soldiers.

Was it understandable given the context of the times? Yes, but that's what the Geneva Conventions have always been there for - to stop the uglier side of human nature taking control in times of conflict. Denmark behaved badly there and should acknowledge it, just as other countries, including our own, have had to acknowledge darker periods in our past.
 

GDPR

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Gog forbid Pie ever lost an opportunity offered by Holocaust Deniers like Rafael Rose ( check his form) to weep over the fact that war and its aftermath is hell.

Are you all simpletons? OP is leading you by the nose.
 

nationalsday

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Were they actually military "pioneers" (pioinieren) or engineers who had been in that corps during the war (because they were also the flamenwerfer - flamethrowers who operated with the stormtroop units - Sturmpioiniere) - or were they randomly selected prisoners?

Could they have been SS prisoners?

Would they have shirked the job of inserting the Zyklon B capsules into the hatches on the roofs of the gas chambers?





Just saw a long ad on mainstream tv station extolling the wonders of the contribution of BASF to human life the other evening - I was just thinking are they having a laugh/misappropriating the urine?
 
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Strawberry

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Gog forbid Pie ever lost an opportunity offered by Holocaust Deniers like Rafael Rose ( check his form) to weep over the fact that war and its aftermath is hell.

Are you all simpletons? OP is leading you by the nose.
Screw the OP and his Holocaust denial. The rest of us should be able to discuss the past honestly, although I find Irish people are generally very poor at that anyway, whether our own history or anyone else's. There's two acceptable views of Irish history which can be broadly summarised as...

1) Padraig Pearse was as bad as ISIS and Jimmy Saville combined, while the British Empire was a civilising influence on savage races like us.

2) Even Hitler can't have been all bad given that he was against the irredeemably evil Brits.

Rafael Rose, who is English, presumably thinks he can tap into the latter group to peddle his Holocaust denial. I'd prefer a more honest, balanced discussion on history, and that means acknowledging that the Allies didn't always behave like angels either.
 

GDPR

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Screw the OP and his Holocaust denial. The rest of us should be able to discuss the past honestly, although I find Irish people are generally very poor at that anyway, whether our own history or anyone else's. There's two acceptable views of Irish history which can be broadly summarised as...

1) Padraig Pearse was as bad as ISIS and Jimmy Saville combined, while the British Empire was a civilising influence on savage races like us.

2) Even Hitler can't have been all bad given that he was against the irredeemably evil Brits.

Rafael Rose, who is English, presumably thinks he can tap into the latter group to peddle his Holocaust denial. I'd prefer a more honest, balanced discussion on history, and that means acknowledging that the Allies didn't always behave like angels either.
People have been discussing the past honestly for years. I gave you all a link from 1995 about German POWS used to clear mine fields in France - the practice ended because the French population objected.

Pie is the last place I would go for historical discussion. History is like astrology for most of our posters. An obscure belief system that explains why they are miserable and might get lucky if the stars are aligned.
 


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