Lenihan Confirms Croke Park agreement safe

Tipp_ex

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i take it ye all missed the boradsheets yesterday where they almost all ran with the story that the IMF have examined the CPA and actually AGREE that its workable.....

So what are ye on bout saying they will destroy it? They have endorsed it! :rolleyes:
 


polcol2

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Jun 17, 2010
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The pay cuts would need to be severe if only 28k are being cut. Also the order is wrong. Make the pay cuts now (on by Jan. 1st) to get immediate savings and to make redundancy cheaper (as it will be based on current salary) and more attractive.
Keith-M Its FF we are dealing with here your suggestion is the correct way but this mob will mess it up even at this stage
 

Hogwash

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Actually thats precisely what the CPD says. Deliver reform or face pay cuts and mandatory redundancies.

Of course it matters, if the PS deliver the reforms and the savings what makes you think the CDP will be scrapped?
Can't wait to see the savings and reforms that are going to be delivered. Can anyone give exaples of what has been achieved since the CDP was put in place.
The sad truth is that the PS pay rates were escalated too much when the money was flowing. It's not the fault of individual PS workers, but they will suffer for it. Now that the money is no longer there pay is going to have to be cut some more, back to sustainable levels. It's not pleasant, it's not nice, it may not even be fair but it will happen.
 

Kevin Doyle

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i take it ye all missed the boradsheets yesterday where they almost all ran with the story that the IMF have examined the CPA and actually AGREE that its workable.....

So what are ye on bout saying they will destroy it? They have endorsed it! :rolleyes:

Of course they did. The power it gives them is enormous.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Can't wait to see the savings and reforms that are going to be delivered. Can anyone give exaples of what has been achieved since the CDP was put in place.
Thats the governments fault, they have not, to date, instigatigated anything. Everyone is waiting for them to actually begin the process. There has been zero progress because the Government hasnt actually tried to impliment anything.
 

brughahaha

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I would rather see the deadwood rooted out to be honest and the rest left in tact, I strong PS that will attract the right people in the future too. There is so much good work done by great people and it gets overshadowed constantly by the eye catching headlines
A reasonable post in the sea of hysteria that is P.ie ....
The PS needs to attract the right people and pay a reasonable wage for that

The problem is

1 in my experience is that the PS have no notion of rates of pay and conditions in the private sector and have a constant poor me attitude when in fact they are very very well paid by equivalent standards (excluding job security!)

2 In the lower paid jobs they have been oblivious and sheltered to the downward pressure on wages caused by migrant workforces .... something vigorously campiagned for by Mssrs De Rossa and Begg etc , causing many job losses, pay freezes/ reductions in the Private sector in return for Public sector rewards ... so expect much private sector anger towards the PS unions .... usually happens when someone sells you down the river


3 Most PS and private sector workers go in to work every day to do the best job possible but the PS seems incapable of reform or change to improve efficiency
You could blame management and but when we see unions defending the 'bank break' and other such nonsense you really have to question if there really is any desire for change amongst the workforce

4 Across all state run sectors , it often feels the first priority is to ensure things are run for the benefit of the staff rather than service users

2 benchmarking agreements and the CPA deal and yet still no reform .... and yet some wonder why all the 'PS Bashing"...... meanwhile the Private sector has been slaughtered with 450,000 job losses .... simply put patience has run out
 

collina

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2 benchmarking agreements and the CPA deal and yet still no reform .... and yet some wonder why all the 'PS Bashing"...... meanwhile the Private sector has been slaughtered with 450,000 job losses .... simply put patience has run out
That figure is a straight forward lie; there have not been anywhere like 450,000 job losses. Why make yourself look like a half-wit?

This whole tread is ludicrous as the Croke Park agreement is meaningless. Public Sector will take another 30%-33% pay-cuts in the next three years on top of the 10%-13% levies/cuts already taken. That's fair enough given the state of the country. What really bothers me is the glee with which people talk about 28,000 redundancies for the PS as if these weren't real families suffering. It breaks my heart to read about the job losses in the private sector day by day and helpless to do anything, same in conversations with my colleagues.

Can you imagine someone on here demanding that 28,000 redundancies plus pay-cuts be made in the Construction Industry when it was at the height of ripping us off? When the salaries for Brickies and sparks were phenomenal and far exceeding PS workers?
 

brughahaha

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That figure is a straight forward lie; there have not been anywhere like 450,000 job losses. Why make yourself look like a half-wit?
October 2010
443,000 unemployed ....excludes those that emigrated and those that found new work...also excludes many in the building trade that were self employed subcontractors so dont appear in the figures

Not me that looks like a half wit for trying to deny factual figures and living in lala land .... :rolleyes:
 

evercloserunion

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That figure is a straight forward lie; there have not been anywhere like 450,000 job losses. Why make yourself look like a half-wit?

This whole tread is ludicrous as the Croke Park agreement is meaningless. Public Sector will take another 30%-33% pay-cuts in the next three years on top of the 10%-13% levies/cuts already taken. That's fair enough given the state of the country. What really bothers me is the glee with which people talk about 28,000 redundancies for the PS as if these weren't real families suffering. It breaks my heart to read about the job losses in the private sector day by day and helpless to do anything, same in conversations with my colleagues.

Can you imagine someone on here demanding that 28,000 redundancies plus pay-cuts be made in the Construction Industry when it was at the height of ripping us off? When the salaries for Brickies and sparks were phenomenal and far exceeding PS workers?
+1. But the thing to remember is that in real life, Irish people have more compassion than you will find on here. P.ie attracts a particularly nasty breed. In the real world nobody likes to see anyone lose their job.
 

Skyrocket

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The Croke Park Agreement should not be safe. The IMF are in the country now - not time to opt for the emergency exit clause?
 

collina

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October 2010
443,000 unemployed ....excludes those that emigrated and those that found new work...also excludes many in the building trade that were self employed subcontractors so dont appear in the figures

Not me that looks like a half wit for trying to deny factual figures and living in lala land .... :rolleyes:
Spoofer. The unemployment figure is not the job losses figure in the private sector as you quoted it. Are you seriously saying all of these 443,000 people were at work two years ago? That's actually Alice Through The looking Glass stuff.
 

puckhue

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Nov 22, 2010
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Hopefully the imf/eu bailout will smash the croke park deal to pieces. It is such an affront to the hard working and suffering private sector workers in this country who along with foreign borrowing fund this gravy train. Ive recently been in the local library, motor tax office, social welfare office and ive never seen such a bunch of lazy useless and disrespectful employees.
 

crocker_g

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Some chance. The Public Service will be cut to ribbons pay will be cut, pensions will be cut. All these guys want is the completion of the Croke Park deal and Unions to sign up to changes to terms and conditions of employment. Then sorry about that Government will not be able to deliver on the deal. Terms and conditions of employment gone for ever. Let us all out of Croke Park now.
 

politicaldonations

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All these croke park "reforms" were paid for already and should have happened years ago. I hope the IMF drill down into the public sector numbers because the overall gross pay bill figures dont seem that large but the average per worker is huge. IMF/Europe might just be assuming that Irish public sector workers are on same rates of pay as Euro average when its much higher. Either way , significant cuts will be inevitable in coming years, FF are jut kickign the can further down the road.
 

crocker_g

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I am not sure where politicaldonations is getting his/her information from. There are all too few in the public servcice earning big money. Clerical officers are getting about €22k PA Ex Officers from €30k to about €41k. So let us stop the bashing of the public service and look to those earning over €100,000k. Cut TD's pay, Consultants in hospitals at €250,000k.
 

slumdog1971

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Some chance. The Public Service will be cut to ribbons pay will be cut, pensions will be cut. All these guys want is the completion of the Croke Park deal and Unions to sign up to changes to terms and conditions of employment. Then sorry about that Government will not be able to deliver on the deal. Terms and conditions of employment gone for ever. Let us all out of Croke Park now.
Straight away in with a stupid comment Newbie.

IMF looked at CPD and realised that they can get their cuts etc because the Irish have already signed up to them.

What part of the CPD didn't you read or are you just bounding on to the anti ps wagon that politics.ie has become??
 

politicaldonations

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I am not sure where politicaldonations is getting his/her information from. There are all too few in the public servcice earning big money. Clerical officers are getting about €22k PA Ex Officers from €30k to about €41k. So let us stop the bashing of the public service and look to those earning over €100,000k. Cut TD's pay, Consultants in hospitals at €250,000k.
Nonsense . average public sector pay is 50k per annum. Ps workers also have a rolls royce pension which adds 20-30% premium to that already excessive pay. Job security adds another premium. All these figures are widely publicised by trade union websites, CSO etc. What a clerical officer gets in public sector after several year is significantly higher than in private sector and same for nearly all PS jobs.
 

crocker_g

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Why not let the facts answer yoou

SECRETARY GENERAL

€165,378

DEPUTY SECRETARY

€132,302

ASSISTANT SECRETARY

€97,652 €102,376 €107,102 €111,827

PRINCIPAL (HIGHER)

€75,955 €79,088 €82,229 €85,364 €88,040 €90,8611 €93,6782

PRINCIPAL

€70,578 €73,571 €76,544 €79,541 €82,066 €84,6841 €87,3012

ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL (HIGHER)

€59,281 €61,538 €63,802 €66,056 €68,317 €69,632 €71,8851

€74,1272

ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL

€53,977 €55,997 €58,017 €60,037 €62,058 €63,226 €65,2631

€67,3052

ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER STANDARD SCALE

€27,432 €29,922 €33,102 €35,525 €37,948 €40,379 €42,800

€45,215 €46,8841 €48,5582

ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER HIGHER SCALE

€35,525 €37,948 €40,379 €42,800 €45,215 €46,884 €48,537

€50,188

1 After 3 years satisfactory service at the maximum.

2 After 6 years satisfactory service at the maximum.

Circular 17/2004 - Appendix 1A

HIGHER EXECUTIVE OFFICER STANDARD SCALE

€38,270 €39,426 €40,577 €41,736 €42,893 €44,055 €45,215 €46,8841 €48,5582

HIGHER EXECUTIVE OFFICER HIGHER SCALE

€40,577 €41,736 €42,893 €44,055 €45,215 €46,884 €47,982

€49,083 €50,188

EXECUTIVE OFFICER STANDARD SCALE

€25,200 €27,035 €28,439 €29,798 €31,153 €32,474 €33,809

€35,108 €36,445 €37,332 €38,6011 €39,8722

EXECUTIVE OFFICER HIGHER SCALE

€25,200 €27,035 €28,439 €29,798 €31,153 €32,474 €33,809

€35,108 €36,445 €37,332 €38,601 €39,546 €40,492 €41,436

STAFF OFFICER

€28,815 €30,073 €31,204 €32,208 €33,212 €34,222 €35,238

€36,206 €37,1271 €38,3512

CLERICAL OFFICER STANDARD SCALE

€19,111 (€366.25) €20,002 (€383.33) €20,895 (€400.44)

€21,789 (€417.57) €22,679 (€434.63) €23,572 (€451.75)

€24,464 (€468.83) €25,357(€485.96) €26,247 (€503.00)

€27,139 (€520.10) €28,025 (€537.09) €29,408 (€563.58)

€30,493 (€584.39)1 €30,992 (€593.95)2

CLERICAL OFFICER HIGHER SCALE

€20,002 (€383.33) €20,895 (€400.44) €21,789 (€417.57)

€22,679 (€434.63) €23,572 (€451.75) €24,464 (€468.83)

€25,357 (€485.96) €26,247 (€503.00) €27,139 (€520.10)

€28,025 (€537.09) €29,408 (€563.58) €30,493 (€584.39)

€30,992 (€593.95) €31,664 (€606.83)

1 After 3 years satisfactory service at the maximum.

2 After 6 years satisfactory service at the maximum.

Note: While the scales for CO, Standard and Higher, are shown in annual terms, officers in these grades will continue to be paid on a weekly basis at the amounts shown in brackets.
 

Oldira1

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Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,466
Why are people pissed off with a nurse earning 50k a year and NOT pissed off that professional firms charge the state 520 for advice. Nurses have at least as much knowledge as a gobshyte in Ernest & Young or PWC. And yes..the state does pay their wages in the form of fees to said firms.
 

crocker_g

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Jun 9, 2009
Messages
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As for the pension which of us in the private sector was willing to give up the well paid jobs we had between 1990 to 2010 to work in the public sectro. Let us not split the country into public Vs private sector.
 


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