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Lenihan: Senior debt to be "discussed" with bondholders


Outlander

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Ireland open to talks on senior debt - report | Reuters

"Can there be discussions between banks and senior bondholders for mutual advantage? Of course there can be," Brian Lenihan told the newspaper while on a roadshow in New York.
That's another corner turned then.

Finally a hint that debt restructuring is on the way.

(And if senior debt is up for discussion, the more junior variety has surely been cut into squares and hung up on a rusty nail in the outside toilet)
 

Barnacle

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Ireland open to talks on senior debt - report | Reuters



That's another corner turned then.

Finally a hint that debt restructuring is on the way.

(And if senior debt is up for discussion, the more junior variety has surely been cut into squares and hung up on a rusty nail in the outside toilet)

Lenihan has turned so many corners he has no idea which direction he is pointing. He must be getting dizzy!
 
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Nipper

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But Tonic told me it was impossible cos no one knows who they are!

I just don't know who to believe anymore :)
 

HarshBuzz

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FT Alphaville presents this rather well, letting Lendahand's utter lack of consistency speak for itself:

No doubt we will now be subjected to more Jesuitical bullsh!t about what this actually means (something along the lines of his infamous defence of his 'cheapest bailout in the world' claim)

“It’s unthinkable that Ireland would default on senior debt or that Ireland’s banks would default on senior debt”

“Much has been said about senior debt obligations in Anglo Irish Bank. The position is that senior debt obligations rank equally with deposits and other creditors under Irish law. I have no plans to change this position. There is, therefore, no question of seeking to impose losses on holders of such senior debt in Anglo or indeed in any other credit institution in the State through any legislative measures. Any alternative strategy as advocated by some creates a significant risk of jeopardising the banking system’s and indeed the State’s access to international debt markets and cannot be countenanced on that basis.”

“I know that there is keen debate about the position of senior bond holders. The Government has made its position clear on this matter and it does not intend to impose losses on senior bond holders. However, this does not rule out the possibility of some negotiations or a liability management exercise agreed by consent.”

Brian Lenihan, Ireland’s finance minister, told the Financial Times while on a roadshow in New York that he still opposed senior debtholders having to accept any losses as part of the €50bn (£43.7bn) bail-out announced two weeks ago . But if Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide building society wanted to enter into “amicable discussions” with senior debtholders he would back the talks.
“Can there be discussions between banks and senior bondholders for mutual advantage? Of course there can be . . . [I would encourage them] if it is for mutual advantage, yes.”


 

DCon

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But Tonic told me it was impossible cos no one knows who they are!

I just don't know who to believe anymore :)
If we don't know who they are, how do we pay them their dividend??
 

eoghanacht

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I wonder will they make monkey noises?

Perhaps not, they'll just point and laugh.
 

HarshBuzz

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OK, Zero Hedge is also examining this

(For the unitiated, this is a finance\investment banking blog that pretty much anyone who is anyone 'in the markets' reads. It is highly influential.)

ZH smashes the ridiculous notion that Lenihan has always persisted in pushing; namely that we can't default on bank debt as they are the 'same people' who hold our sovereign debt. Eh, no they aren't you illiterate cretin.

<from the FT>"The treatment of senior bondholders is seen as crucial for Ireland, with Mr Lenihan reluctant to impose losses when many of the same investors also hold Irish government debt."

We doubt the last will be a major concern. As we showed on Sunday, the only buyer of Irish debt in September, was the ECB, either directly, or indirectly, via domestic banks. Now if Lenihan is worried that Ireland will never get a creditor aside from the ECB, then he is spot on.
bang! Nailed it.

Nobody wants our sovereign debt Mr Lenihan and our bank debt is junk. Them's the facts. Let's stop pretending otherwise and deal with this situation on a realistic basis.
 

slumdog1971

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OK, Zero Hedge is also examining this

(For the unitiated, this is a finance\investment banking blog that pretty much anyone who is anyone 'in the markets' reads. It is highly influential.)

ZH smashes the ridiculous notion that Lenihan has always persisted in pushing; namely that we can't default oin bank debt as they are the 'same people' who hold our sovereign debt. Eh, no they aren't you illiterate cretin.



bang! Nailed it.

Nobody wants our sovereign debt Mr Lenihan and our bank debt is junk. Them's the facts. Let's stop pretending otherwise and deal with this situation on a realistic basis.
I think he might be worried about when the ECB pull the plug on buying sovereign bonds either directly or on the subsequent market. I don't think it will happen.

I don't think Lenny is bright enough to see the big picture. It's not Ireland that's in trouble in Europe. The whole crazy edifice is the problem. No one is buying sovereign paper anywhere. The German banks are big enough to support their own paper

He should be actively promoting the purchase of Irish Bonds by the ECB. After all we are only the size of a city state. We shouldn't be a threat to the Euro.

This debt crisis will force European politicans to either force through greater harmonisation and federalisation or cut up the whole project and start again.
 

HarshBuzz

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I think he might be worried about when the ECB pull the plug on buying sovereign bonds either directly or on the subsequent market. I don't think it will happen.
I don't think it will happen either

I don't think Lenny is bright enough to see the big picture. It's not Ireland that's in trouble in Europe. The whole crazy edifice is the problem. No one is buying sovereign paper anywhere. The German banks are big enough to support their own paper
:confused:

He should be actively promoting the purchase of Irish Bonds by the ECB. After all we are only the size of a city state. We shouldn't be a threat to the Euro.
do the contagion conga baby!!

if we go, Portugal goes
if Portugal goes, Spain goes (they have been lying through their asses)
if Spain goes...well you get the picture

This debt crisis will force European politicans to either force through greater harmonisation and federalisation or cut up the whole project and start again.
sure it's happening already
 

Squire Allworthy

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That's another corner turned then.

Finally a hint that debt restructuring is on the way.

Looks like you are where you should have been long, long ago. But let us be positive this should be welcomed and you should hope the government takes a strong position.
 

GDPR

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But Tonic told me it was impossible cos no one knows who they are!

I just don't know who to believe anymore :)
You make a public offer, if they respond, you know who they are, if they don't, you don't.

It's not B&W, but you should still try to get your head around it.
 

HarshBuzz

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You make a public offer, if they respond, you know who they are, if they don't, you don't.
this is incorrect

actually you'd go through the bond custodians
 

slumdog1971

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do the contagion conga baby!!

if we go, Portugal goes
if Portugal goes, Spain goes (they have been lying through their asses)
if Spain goes...well you get the picture
But that's my point HB. A small city state on the edge of Europe should not be threat to the European project.

It is because of Bad Design. So they only way to fix it is for the center to support the edges or else let it end.

Either the ECB continues to support weak countries or it doesn't and the project fails. Those are the choices for our political masters.
 

HarshBuzz

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But that's my point HB. A small city state on the edge of Europe should not be threat to the European project.

It is because of Bad Design. So they only way to fix it is for the center to support the edges or else let it end.

Either the ECB continues to support weak countries or it doesn't and the project fails. Those are the choices for our political masters.
but sure isn't that precisely what they're doing right now?

anyway, back to senior debt and the confused meanderings of our FinMin as he destroys what little credibility he has left.
 

GDPR

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I've long since put Tonic on ignore to save myself having to read his take on things. He is more out of touch then Fianna Fail
From a post of yours 19 hours ago.

Eh, come on now, give Kenny a break, 1 out of 4 is something to build on.
Don't bother talking to him...

He's been rattling on about Kenny since he joined - This is a classic post from him circa 2008. Its clear Enda Kenny has looked him sideways sometime in the distant past and he has not got over it.
"Originally Posted by borntorum
I don't see the current administration lasting another 365 days. Unless something dramatic happens, Cowen will not be Taoiseach for much longer, and his Tanaiste will go with him. I think that as the sense of national crisis increases in the New Year, and the general public will realise how serious things are, support will grow for a grand coalition-type arrangement. If FG ditch Kenny for Bruton, they may become the largest party in the next GE, whenever that may be If they don't, we will have a stalemate
."


What a very bad liar you are.
 

Conor

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