Lenihan tells Dáil that EU/IMF deal does not require approval of the Dáil

Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,249
Website
www.politics.ie
Twitter
davidcochrane
In a statement to the Dáil on the EU/IMF financial arrangements, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan TD has said that on the advice of the Attorney General, it does not require the approval of the Dáil.

The question has been raised as to whether this support programme has the status of an international agreement. I am advised by the Attorney General that the Programme, and these supporting documents do not represent international agreements and do not require the approval of the Dáil. I am presenting the documents to the Dáil, for information and to inform discussion of the programme.
Brian Lenihan TD, Minister for Finance​
Lenihan also told the Dáil that reaction to the "external assistance programme" was "hysterical and contradictory".
 


Halo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
774
Will sinn fein continue on like they did with the by election case?
 

Fubsss

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
154
God i wish they would. Is Lenihan for real? It's amazing that not one economist has come out and agreed with all this rubbish he comes out with. Though I'm open to correction on that one.
 

Kalan

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
172
In a statement to the Dáil on the EU/IMF financial arrangements, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan TD has said that on the advice of the Attorney General, it does not require the approval of the Dáil.



Lenihan also told the Dáil that reaction to the "external assistance programme" was "hysterical and contradictory".
So the documents and the proposed Memorandum of Understanding are now publicly available? Does anyone know?
 

retep

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
1,730
Could a realpolitik everymans translation of that mean that the deal does not require approval of the Dail because Lenihan knows that if he were to put it before the Dail for a vote, even a considerable proportion of the FF back benchers would not support it and it would have no chance in the earthly world (To quote Jackie Healy Rae) of passing in a Dail vote?
 

Squire Allworthy

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
Greens should use this to pull out of government immediately.

Motion of no confidence required.
 

Northtipp

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
21,688
should'nt be surprised at Lenihan. what do you expect from a pig but a grunt. As for The AG's advices, is this the same AG who advised them that the courts would not rule the election in Donegal should be held?
 

stripey cat

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
2,799
It seems hard to judge whether a loan with conditions from another country is an international agreement. Still, if Lenihan and the AG are so sure, they won't mind going to court.
 

sport02

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
19,548
Well the ball is certainly back in FG'S side, if they abstain from the budget, they are giving the bailout the green light.
 

turdsl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
26,002
Did he ever hear of moral authority,have the courage to put it to a vote or does he lack confidence in his own programme.
 

Holy Cow

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
2,085
I dont accept this.
 

westie12

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
849
It seems hard to judge whether a loan with conditions from another country is an international agreement. Still, if Lenihan and the AG are so sure, they won't mind going to court.
or maybe they are just bluffing!
 

paulp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,230
Why dont they put it to a vote anyway? Have they committed to eu that they wont?
 

Holy Cow

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
2,085
Time for the shinners to hit the high court again.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,249
Website
www.politics.ie
Twitter
davidcochrane
Speech by Pat Rabbitte in the Dáil on the matter......

On Monday I asked that the Government clarify the exact status in Irish and International Law of the proposed EU-IMF Joint Programme for Ireland. Is it a treaty because, if it is, then Article 29.5.2 of the Constitution requires that it be approved by Dáil Eireann. If it’s not a treaty then it must be either a formal contract or simply a statement of future policy. However the Courts have held that the Government is not entitled to contract away, on behalf of itself and its successors, the discretion to shape future policies differently.

Make no mistake – the EU-IMF Joint Programme will shape future policies differently. It is a nonsense to argue that the next Government is not obliged to work the Joint Programme. And it is nonsense to argue, as the Taoiseach has done, that the EU-IMF Joint Programme is analogous to what the NTMA does on a routine basis. The NTMA sources funds to run the State’s services but, in doing so, the NTMA does not fetter the Government as to what it can and cannot do across a range of fiscal, economic and social policy. According to the Government’s own statement the EU-IMF Joint Programme requires the Irish Government to introduce “a fiscal responsibility law” which will include “a medium-term expenditure framework with binding multi-annual ceilings on expenditure in each area.”

If that does not fetter a government’s future executive action, I don’t know what does. In this debate the Taoiseach has dismissed the argument that the EU-IMF Programme is a treaty. However it is worthwhile returning to the origins of the European Financial Stability Facility as agreed on 7th June 2010 where the contracting member States commit as follows:

“We hereby notify you that we are duly authorised under our national laws to permit us to be bound by the above mentioned agreement…“

Most citizens would interpret the foregoing as the kind of language used in international treaties and yet our Government has not complied with the usual steps necessary to get the approval of this House.

Minister Andrews, on behalf of the Government, has claimed that a vote of Dáil Eireann is not required because the agreement is authorised by Council Regulation EU Number 407/2010 under which this country can request financial assistance. However this regulation applies only to the European Financial Stability Mechanism which is only one of four sources of funding in the Programme. Further Deputy Gilmore detailed yesterday how the stability mechanism is a short-term response designed for natural disasters and that its legality is the subject of a case pending in the German Constitutional Court.

As regards the European Financial Stability Facility, it is clear that this facility came into existence pursuant to an international agreement between some member States of the EU although it was never laid before Dáil Eireann nor was Dáil approval sought for its terms.

Two points are being made here: Primarily why is the Government attempting to dodge bringing the EU-IMF-Irish Government Agreement to Dáil Eireann for approval? Secondly, if the Government is adamant that there is no constitutional impediment in the way of ratification of the EU-IMF-Irish Government Agreement then why not set out the legal advice to that effect?

Other than the decision to join the EEC, I cannot imagine a more significant Agreement than the one now being foisted on the Irish people by Ministers who will soon be spending more time with their pensions. To dodge getting the approval of Dáil Eireann for this Agreement speaks volumes for the Government’s own private assessment of its merits. The Government’s attitude in the face of the State being obliged for the first time since Independence to seek formal external assistance betrays its private contempt for Parliament. And it does so at a time when citizens have never been more engaged and expect their elected members to Dáil Eireann to scrutinize the implications of this unprecedented Agreement for Ireland.
 

Holy Cow

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
2,085
Is this the same AG that gave advise saying that the by elections should not be held? I would not be listening to his advise.
 

Old Irish

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,501
We would all be sick if Lenihan and Cowens decisions over the past few weeks and months actually turned out to be the right thing for the Country BUT not one person in the professional communities have agreed with them which beggars the question 'how are they so bloody confident about their decisions and remarks?' when most of them have turned out to be a national disgrace so far.

We are all so "hysterical" as Lenihan puts it because nothing they have done so far has been for the good of the people they are supposed to be serving! I'm really nervous.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top