Lenihan: "What makes me angry is those who have brought us to this place"

ChickenBiryani

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None of his choices have been GOOD or well informed. Since he took over we've seen:
  • Bank guarantee
  • NAMA
  • Over payments for AIB stake
  • Anglo bailout

Before Brian there was a global crisis that's now nearly over - since Brian there's been the biggest single transfer of wealth from taxpayer to private individuals ever - making Cromwell look like a socialist - and he's now playing the blame game...can any decent Irish journalist really stand for this?
You are totally and utterly deluding yourself. Your insistence that everything was fine except for decisions taken since 2007/2008 is just as bad as those who claim it was all down to Lehmans.

The die in this country was cast in the late 90's/early 2000's when the government of the time allowed hyperinflation in the property market here. By the time 2007/2008 came around we were already ************************************.

Yes we have made bad decisions subsequently and believe me, I can't stand FF, but in this particular case, it strikes me that BL could come out tomorrow and say the sky is blue, and you would argue him and denounce him no matter what.
 


paxtime

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None of his choices have been GOOD or well informed. Since he took over we've seen:
  • Bank guarantee
  • NAMA
  • Over payments for AIB stake
  • Anglo bailout

Before Brian there was a global crisis that's now nearly over - since Brian there's been the biggest single transfer of wealth from taxpayer to private individuals ever - making Cromwell look like a socialist - and he's now playing the blame game...can any decent Irish journalist really stand for this?
And that is one of the purposes of the whole scenario. To transfer publicly-owned resources into private hands along with reductions in wages and welfare benefits. All the managers of so-called recessions have these aims. Nothing has changed and Lenihan has played his part in this like the good little puppy that he is.
 

He3

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I'd agree with most of this. You can't say you're "Angry at those who brought us to this place" without being angry at Ahern and Cowen.
Maybe he is blaming the taxi driver?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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You are totally and utterly deluding yourself. Your insistence that everything was fine except for decisions taken since 2007/2008 is just as bad as those who claim it was all down to Lehmans.

The die in this country was cast in the late 90's/early 2000's when the government of the time allowed hyperinflation in the property market here. By the time 2007/2008 came around we were already ************************************.

Yes we have made bad decisions subsequently and believe me, I can't stand FF, but in this particular case, it strikes me that BL could come out tomorrow and say the sky is blue, and you would argue him and denounce him no matter what.
CB - I'm not saying there didn't have to be hard decisions, there absolutely did, but there should have been fair decisions. Brian Lenihan's decisions where shocking in their lack of creativity - "there is no alternative", "bail out the banks at all costs" - and were lazy - "let me be clear...we have analysed the banks positions and we're not rushing into this". His pandering to senior civil servants, the quangos and semi-states was sickening, his amendment of the Anglo legislation to allow developers time to remove deposits and transfer assets to family was corrupt. NAMA is going to spend €2bn on professional services in the next 5 years, dwarfing the tribunals. Brian Lenihan is NOT a friend of the taxpayer, and as such, yes, I would call him on that of he were to say he was. If he were to say the sky is blue I'd certainly want to check if for myself though.

Events and global sentiment has proven him wrong, and now he's blaming everyone else but himself.
 

bokonon

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Will we ever get the answer to the questions that DCon, Powderfinger, Cactus and Sidey have been asking: who were the depositors in Anglo on 28 September 2008? How much money on deposit in Anglo originated as loans from Anglo? Why did Fianna Fail omit a clause in the nationalisation legislation that would have protected Anglo deposits where the deposit-holders held large loans?

Think of a famous rich Irish businessman/developer or two or three. Now forget about them and consider all the other rich guys. They have been bailed out by us. The citizenry's personal debt has not yet even been considered, but the Golden Circle - whose personal debt we are talking about when we read of the billions involved in haircuts to NAMA, recapitalisation of AIB, bailouts for BOI and nationalisation of Anglo - are shored up and secure. The Golden Circle were ruined. The mass transfer of generations of wealth was not to protect the Sovereign it was to save the Suzerains.

Consider this meeting for a moment, where Sean Fitzpatrick ringfenced his family's debt and offset it, with full co-operation from Anglo, against a basket-case investment in Nigeria:
Mr FitzPatrick assured Anglo the [Nigerian oil well] investment would be "very successful" when the bank agreed to the February 2009 deal.

Anglo holds €15m as security on FitzPatrick family debts - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
This is simply incredible. At the time of this meeting, Mr Fitzpatrick had been found to have concealed over 100 million Euro of "personal loans" from Anglo and had been removed from the employ of the bank. It is beyond credible to think that his assurances on the viability on a high-risk Nigerian oil-well were met with anything other than convivial laughter.

Recall now the Austrian Anglo deal and make your own mind up about what kind of enterprise we are dealing with:
Sean FitzPatrick’s decision to offload an Austrian private banking subsidiary in 2008 means the identities of its customers remain shrouded in secrecy
...
Indeed, it seems that FitzPatrick was so anxious to flog the Austrian business that he was even prepared to lend Valartis some of the money to buy the business from him.
...
One of the big advantages of having money on deposit with an Austrian bank is that the identity of depositors cannot be disclosed to the authorities, as Austria enjoys certain derogations from the EU Savings Directive.
...
The sale of Anglo’s Austrian business was completed on December 19, 2008, the day after FitzPatrick resigned as chairman after his dodgy loan dealing had been uncovered.

The curious tale of Anglo Irish Bank and its Austrian deposits: ThePost.ie
Anglo was nationalised a few days after this. Was there an arrest, a reversal, an enquiry, anything? Where was our guardian angel Mr Lenihan? Where was the providence of our simple faith in government? He was busy - busy bringing forward the nationalisation legislation which now famously omitted any attempt to prevent the friends of Fianna Fail from draining off all money they had on deposit in Anglo, even if they simultaneously owed Anglo a lot more - and more offensively, even if the deposits originated as Anglo loans:
The Irish Labour Party today criticised the government for changing the proposed legislation to nationalise the Anglo Irish Bank. A clause relating to the withdrawal of money by customers who owe a lot of money and have more than €20m on deposit is being dropped.

The Fianna Fáil-led coalition had planned to restrict customers with deposits of more than €20m from withdrawing money if their debts were higher than that figure. Labour is questioning whether developers and businessmen lobbied against the move.
Investors fear for future of nationalised bank | Business | guardian.co.uk
This final point conjures up the following very likely scenario:

1. Developer takes out a 100 million loan for a project
2. He pays for the land - 25 million say - and leaves 75 million on deposit in Anglo, paying subcontractors out of that until the bubble bursts.
3. Anglo gets Nationalised.
4. Developer salts away the 75 million thanks to Fianna Fail removing the "unnecessary clause" in the nationalisation legislation at the last minute
5. Developer's loan of 100 million transferred to NAMA; taxpayer pays for some portion of the original loan.
6. Tax-payer "recapitalises" Anglo for the rest of the original 100 million loan.
7. Lord Henry Mountcharles witnesses developers toasting NAMA in Spain.

This is the heist that we have just borne witness to. The Golden Circle has been saved at the cost of the general citizen. Unemployment, emigration, divorce, drug-use, alcoholism and mental health issues will rise in incidence amongst the Irish populace while life-span, education, quality of life and health will correspondingly decline. Meanwhile,"those who got us here", such as Neary, Fingleton, Drumm, Hurley and the rest of the cronies of Fianna Fail are insulated from justice and from the penury they have inflicted on the rest of society by the protective shield erected by Lenihan and his fellow Ba'athists. Be thankful all is not lost: Fianna Fail's primary constituency - the corrupt Golden Circle - can luxuriate. And their children will exploit your children when it all comes round again.

Lenihan is angry with these people? Give me a break.
 

Libero

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By the time Brian Lenihan became a minister, surely the vast majority of the damage was already done here?

One can argue ad nauseum about whether he has taken the right decisions since taking office, but none of his choices have been easy, and its quite possible that we are screwed no matter what he did.

Why all the venom? Perhaps privately he feels the mcreevey/aheren/clowen axis did screw everything up but just can't say so for obvious reasons?
As Minister for Finance, Lenihan has given the bankers practically everything they've wanted, including a u-turn on internal appointments to top bank jobs. Bizarrely, Irish Nationwide Building Society continues to be treated like a systemic bank when it's neither systemic or a bank.

That's not a pattern of behaviour consistent with the views Lenihan now claims to hold, is it?
 

mr. jings

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The ability to damn those responsible as if you were a victim while you were responsible in a collective sense being a member of the parliamentary part and/or cabinet is extraordinary.
Damn straight. Even during the good times, FF would use this schizo spin to dodge responsibility for their actions and inactions. They've been in power for, what, 13 years or something and even during the boom they acted like they were the opposition when faced with any thorny issues: schools shortage in West Dublin - how could this have happened? health service going down in flames - how came this to be? etc.

Needless to say everyone basked in cabinet responsibility for a boom they lucked into.
 

ChickenBiryani

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Chaps, I'm not here being a FF apologist. They have brought the country to its knees and deserve to be rightly punished for it, which they will at the next GE. I'm just saying that BL was not in power during the time that the bulk of the damage was done, and its quite possible that in private he is just as disgusted at the state of the country as the rest of us.
 

sondagefaux

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If he's that disgusted then let him resign and support a motion of no confidence in the government.
 

Pauli

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Chaps, I'm not here being a FF apologist. They have brought the country to its knees and deserve to be rightly punished for it, which they will at the next GE. I'm just saying that BL was not in power during the time that the bulk of the damage was done, and its quite possible that in private he is just as disgusted at the state of the country as the rest of us.
As Minister for Finance, he is now in a position to do something about it. Or does he have to defer to economic titans like Coughlan, Hanafin, O'Cuiv and the like whose knowledge of economics can be written in block capitals on the same beermat?
 

Macy

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Chaps, I'm not here being a FF apologist. They have brought the country to its knees and deserve to be rightly punished for it, which they will at the next GE. I'm just saying that BL was not in power during the time that the bulk of the damage was done, and its quite possible that in private he is just as disgusted at the state of the country as the rest of us.
How does his voting record since 1997 stack up against his disgust at how the economy was handled?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Chaps, I'm not here being a FF apologist. They have brought the country to its knees and deserve to be rightly punished for it, which they will at the next GE. I'm just saying that BL was not in power during the time that the bulk of the damage was done, and its quite possible that in private he is just as disgusted at the state of the country as the rest of us.
If he's that disgusted then let him resign and support a motion of no confidence in the government.
Exactly - what he's doing at the moment is straight out of the Lenihan family playbook....his dad was know as "No problem" for the number of time he's tell anyone that anything they wanted was no problem...and they are not the most trustworthy family in Ireland.

He has made mistakes, he is being found out - at great expense to the Irish taxpayer - and now he's begun to re-write history. CB - he is NOT blameless in any of this, has never before expressed any issue with FF's government of the last 13 years and has given up the right to now lay the blame on others.
 

Catch 22

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Brian Lenihan

Entered the Dail as a TD, 1996
Minister for Children, 2002–2007
Minister for Justice, 2007–2008
Minister for Finance, 2008–present

I suppose that would make him just an innocent bystander really!
 

FakeViking

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Chaps, I'm not here being a FF apologist. They have brought the country to its knees and deserve to be rightly punished for it, which they will at the next GE. I'm just saying that BL was not in power during the time that the bulk of the damage was done, and its quite possible that in private he is just as disgusted at the state of the country as the rest of us.
You speak as if BL was a passive bystander in the process. He could have hung up his political hat when he saw what was being done to our country. He could have gone to back to the job he was apparently quite good at: practising Law. But he has the typical FF arrogance and self belief, he believes that he and only he can solve our problems. With no training, no experience, and clearly no ability.
 

Asparagus

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Brian Lenihan

Entered the Dail as a TD, 1996
Minister for Children, 2002–2007
Minister for Justice, 2007–2008
Minister for Finance, 2008–present

I suppose that would make him just an innocent bystander really!
Minister for Killing Children via the HSE, 2002–2007
Minister for Imprisoning Children, 2007–2008
Minister for Condemning Children to a lifetime of penury, 2008–present

What has the man got against children.....?
 

mr_anderson

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'An angry man is again angry with himself when he returns to reason' - Syrus, Publilius
 

consultant

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Minister for Killing Children via the HSE, 2002–2007
Minister for Imprisoning Children, 2007–2008
Minister for Condemning Children to a lifetime of penury, 2008–present

What has the man got against children.....?


When you put it that way.............
 


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