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Let's not be the greedy generation


Shqiptar

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I've just been reading a depressing article in yesterday's Irish Times about youth unemployment in Greece. Now, things are particularly bad in that afflicted land but the same theme emerges in almost every country in the developed world: youth unemployment tends to be several multiples of the national rate. Huge numbers of young people, even highly educated ones, just aren't able to get jobs. The level of joblessness amongst the under-25s is rising sharply and will continue rising for the next five years.

Five years.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the generational demographic, we're talking about the so-called pensions timebomb. We used to retire at 65, now we're being told we'll need to work well into our seventies, perhaps longer.

Hello? Does no-one see the disconnect here? Why should older people hold onto jobs well into their twilight years while a person in their twenties remains on the dole? No-one wins. Yes, I know the argument that we're all living longer and will need those extra contributions to keep ourselves in the style to which we have become accustomed. Well, I don't want that if it means writing off an entire generation and consigning them to a life of unemployment.

It's the same sort of attitude that sees civil servants agreeing to embargos on recruitment rather than wage cuts so young prospective job hunters are shut out. It's the same avarice that sees retired teachers returning to work in schools while they draw their generous pension thereby hogging a job a newly qualified teacher desperately needs. Let's not be the greedy generation. Any country in which more and more young people are deprived of the self-esteem of a job and career prospects will not be a pleasant to live in - regardless of how overflowing our own very personal pension pots are.

International youth unemployment to continue rising until 2018 - The Irish Times - Thu, May 09, 2013
 


Mossy Heneberry

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I remember ages back there was some union representative on the radio talking about greed and how it got us into our current mess.

Anyway, the workers he was representing wanted extra money because they were relocating to another office or something. When it was put to him did he not think that was being greedy, he chuckled and said aboslutely not and unions are there to get as much for the workers as possible.

I guess the point I'm tyring to make is that everybody else sees every other person as greedy. Not themselves, no, never.
 

Shqiptar

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That horse bolted a long time ago.

Welcome to your neoliberal future.
Plus, wouldn't the neo-liberals see the benefits of hiring a younger person rather than retaining an older person at maximum remuneration?
 

Analyzer

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We have a choice. We can choose when to retire.
No we don't. The state will be bankrupt for a long time. And our pensions will suffer.

Burton has already decided that the pension age will be pushed out. Given the pace at which the workpace operates these days, that is effectively committing people to penury in their old age.

And then there is the labour market.

A large proportion of the households in this country are barely surviving.
 

Shqiptar

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I remember ages back there was some union representative on the radio talking about greed and how it got us into our current mess.

Anyway, the workers he was representing wanted extra money because they were relocating to another office or something. When it was put to him did he not think that was being greedy, he chuckled and said aboslutely not and unions are there to get as much for the workers as possible.

I guess the point I'm tyring to make is that everybody else sees every other person as greedy. Not themselves, no, never.
Everyone deserves a chance to work. I would class myself as greedy if I was still working into my mid-70s while there were young people who could do my job but weren't getting that chance.
 

Shqiptar

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No we don't. The state will be bankrupt for a long time. And our pensions will suffer.

Burton has already decided that the pension age will be pushed out. Given the pace at which the workpace operates these days, that is effectively committing people to penury in their old age.

And then there is the labour market.

A large proportion of the households in this country are barely surviving.
Is that better than paying the dole for hundreds of thousands of young people? The developed world is probably too rich. We'll all see our standards of living fall. At least, by spreading the work around, we can avoid the societal effects of massive levels of youth unemployment.

Who is more likely to commit crime? Disaffected young people with no future or older people who might not be so well-off but at least can look back on a career well-worked and a life well-lived?
 

Nemesiscorporation

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We have a choice. We can choose when to retire.
Wrong.

In a few years there will be no pension fund and there will not be the tax receipts to pay for pensions.

At that point those who do not own property will be utterly destitute. The renters will be paying rent to the landlords so that they can have a retirement.

Take a look at how much dent Ireland is racking up. By living so far beyond its means, Ireland is ensuring that the next two or three generations will suffer.

Coming up upon €169 billion.
FinanceDublin.com - Irish Debt Clock

There will be no state pension in 20 years and any teacher or nurse who thinks they will have a state pension is an idiot.

Best to have a house with a large garden and very big greenhouse.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Everyone deserves a chance to work. I would class myself as greedy if I was still working into my mid-70s while there were young people who could do my job but weren't getting that chance.
If there is no pension when you are in your 70's will you martyr yourself for the next generation or keep working so as to have food?
 

Franzoni

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No we don't.The state will be bankrupt for a long time. And our pensions will suffer.

Burton has already decided that the pension age will be pushed out. Given the pace at which the workpace operates these days, that is effectively committing people to penury in their old age.

And then there is the labour market.

A large proportion of the households in this country are barely surviving.
The state will be bankrupt for a long time.
Only for the little people like ourselves and our families Analyzer...not the the fat cats at the top........

A large proportion of the households in this country are barely surviving.
Your mouth to Gods ear......barely being the oparative word yet Quinner the spinner would have us believe were all off the Disneyland with the childrens allowance........:roll:
 
S

simeongrimes

Greece could solve its unemployment crisis by having the right exchange rate. If it sticks with the euro neither the young nor the old will have jobs. Or pensions.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Wrong.

In a few years there will be no pension fund and there will not be the tax receipts to pay for pensions.

At that point those who do not own property will be utterly destitute. The renters will be paying rent to the landlords so that they can have a retirement.

Take a look at how much dent Ireland is racking up. By living so far beyond its means, Ireland is ensuring that the next two or three generations will suffer.

Coming up upon €169 billion.
FinanceDublin.com - Irish Debt Clock

There will be no state pension in 20 years and any teacher or nurse who thinks they will have a state pension is an idiot.

Best to have a house with a large garden and very big greenhouse.
Didn't some government minister say that recently?
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Didn't some government minister admiited that recently?
Dunno, I got it from an economics lecturer a few years back in an open lecture, here in Sweden when they were discussing Ireland and his case seemed financially sound as no one in Ireland saved or invested for the future.
 

Shqiptar

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Wrong.

In a few years there will be no pension fund and there will not be the tax receipts to pay for pensions.

At that point those who do not own property will be utterly destitute. The renters will be paying rent to the landlords so that they can have a retirement.

Take a look at how much dent Ireland is racking up. By living so far beyond its means, Ireland is ensuring that the next two or three generations will suffer.

Coming up upon €169 billion.
FinanceDublin.com - Irish Debt Clock

There will be no state pension in 20 years and any teacher or nurse who thinks they will have a state pension is an idiot.

Best to have a house with a large garden and very big greenhouse.
There'll be a state pension, it'll be basic but better that we start planning for that now. A labour force that is stagnant with few new entrants will get less competitive over time. That's where we are at the moment. In the case of the civil service, the government should have told their opposite numbers across the negotiating table that the recruitment embargo was very unfair and effectively amounted to older people with jobs concentrating wealth in their hands at the expense of younger people without jobs.

The economic future isn't rosy but it will be rosier if more young people are given a chance to work. You say there'll be no state pension. Presumably, you also believe there'll be no umemployment benefit/assistance? Then what?
 

Shqiptar

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Greece could solve its unemployment crisis by having the right exchange rate. If it sticks with the euro neither the young nor the old will have jobs. Or pensions.
It's not just about Greece. Greece is an extreme example but this disease is hitting every developed country and will only get worse.
 

Shqiptar

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If there is no pension when you are in your 70's will you martyr yourself for the next generation or keep working so as to have food?
I have considered this apocalyptic scenario. I do own a house and have a small garden at the back with just about enough space to grow food with which I could survive. (It's handy being a vegetarian.)

But! Living isn't just about money; where we're heading (unless we change) is a society where most people will never have worked and won't have a chance of work. What sort of crime-ridden hellhole would the country be? I think food would be only one of many worries.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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There'll be a state pension, it'll be basic but better that we start planning for that now. A labour force that is stagnant with few new entrants will get less competitive over time. That's where we are at the moment. In the case of the civil service, the government should have told their opposite numbers across the negotiating table that the recruitment embargo was very unfair and effectively amounted to older people with jobs concentrating wealth in their hands at the expense of younger people without jobs.

The economic future isn't rosy but it will be rosier if more young people are given a chance to work. You say there'll be no state pension. Presumably, you also believe there'll be no umemployment benefit/assistance? Then what?
You are missing the point.

Ireland needs to fire about half of its civil servants now. The rest the wages need to be dropped to from €20,000 to €50,000 immediately. That includes all Garda, nurses, teachers, consultants, etc. Anyone objects, don't argue with them, just literally put the first one who is not Irish born onto a plane in chains and deport them. That will get the message across.

As for pensions and unemployment. Ireland is living like a fashionista on speed living on a credit card. Sooner or later the credit limit is going to be reached. Ireland has already increased its credit limit several times to a point well beyond the ability to repay. Sooner or later the creditors are going to call in those debts and I can assure you there will be no social benefits worth talking about. Most likely it will be cut to €50 or less a week or replaced with food stamps.

Sooner or later Ireland is going to hit a fiscal brick wall.

When that happens, do not expect things to be as rosy as they are in Greece. The US government has made clear that Ireland is not allowed any form of default under any circumstances. There has been no change in opinion from them. The US does agree with renegotiations and partial defaults for Greece, but not Ireland. That means Ireland would have to strip everything out just to keep the Dail turning over. That means instant privatisation of water, extraction rights, electricity, forests, etc in a fire sale. That is slowly creeping up upon Ireland.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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I have considered this apocalyptic scenario. I do own a house and have a small garden at the back with just about enough space to grow food with which I could survive. (It's handy being a vegetarian.)

But! Living isn't just about money; where we're heading (unless we change) is a society where most people will never have worked and won't have a chance of work. What sort of crime-ridden hellhole would the country be? I think food would be only one of many worries.
I hope to have a house with a garden soon.

I am very good at aeroponics and hydroponics and have the equipment for that. Also I am looking for a lot of plate glass as in the window shop stuff to build a greenhouse. I have already sent four large boxes of LED lights with E27 fittings back home to reduce my electricity bills.

Also I have a lot of books, so can sit out in the greenhouse in the good light and read if there is no power.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Dunno, I got it from an economics lecturer a few years back in an open lecture, here in Sweden when they were discussing Ireland and his case seemed financially sound as no one in Ireland saved or invested for the future.
Aren't the Swedish thinking about raising their pension age to 75?
 

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