Light touch continuous assessment of projects without exam marks would encourage creativity


Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Recent media reports claim that a majority of Leaving Cert (LC) students would prefer continuous assessment (CA) to the Leaving Cert. No doubt students have given little thought to the likelihood that CA would be gamed by many students who want access to top universities,especially the prestigious medical and law departments.

Naturally, students object to rote learning that is necessary only for LC exam success. One possible solution would be to allow students to bring books,learning materials and mobile internet access to exam halls. They would still have to memorise where materials relevant to exam questions were located in the books.. Such exams would be more creative as the reduced time spent on rote learning could be spent in creative education.

Creativity in secondary education could be enhanced by introducing light touch assessment of educational projects without formal exam marks. The lack of formal marks would remove objections about gaming, while the light touch would require a small amount of teachers' time compared to formal exams. In some cases, light touch might just amount to some friendly encouragement instead of informal exam marks.

Given competitive pressures of the LC,many students and teachers would be reluctant to spend time on creativity projects that didn't quickly relate to exam success. In the interests of creative education,it would be necessary for the Department of Education to mandate that a certain proportion of study time be spent on projects, varying by subject.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,754
We could also extend the playschool curriculum up to LC, ensuring that pupils would have a stress free time in school. Not sure how employers would decide between face painting prowess or best trier awards.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
We could also extend the playschool curriculum up to LC, ensuring that pupils would have a stress free time in school. Not sure how employers would decide between face painting prowess or best trier awards.
I assume you are not dismissing the value of research projects and projects of a practical nature involvimg manual skills.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
I assume you are not dismissing the value of research projects and projects of a practical nature involvimg manual skills.
Not much interest in this topic so far. Maybe the subject should be tied in somehow to teachers' pay for supervising CA!
 

Greener

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,511
CA if properly implemented would be difficult to game. An assortment of pop quizzes, in class essay writing, project submission can be overseen by teachers.

You can also shift the burden of correcting a teachers own students by having other teachers correct it and vice versa.

While I like the points system, the way in which we educate young minds leaves a lot to be desired.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,754
I assume you are not dismissing the value of research projects and projects of a practical nature involvimg manual skills.
The LC is an objective method of measuring what students have learned of a standard curriculum. Project work is subjective, teachers will be pressurised by parents to give high marks to their little darlings, it really is a bad proposal. Basket weaving is a manual skill favoured by American universities with good football teams as an alternative to literacy.
 

Greener

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,511
The LC is an objective method of measuring what students have learned of a standard curriculum. Project work is subjective, teachers will be pressurised by parents to give high marks to their little darlings, it really is a bad proposal. Basket weaving is a manual skill favoured by American universities with good football teams as an alternative to literacy.
How does it work in other countries then?

Also, the purpose of education will have subjectivity anyway. It’s a bad idea to say that we won’t look to change the system because of some alleged objectivity. At LC level various subjects have subjectivity inbuilt anyway.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
The LC is an objective method of measuring what students have learned of a standard curriculum. Project work is subjective, teachers will be pressurised by parents to give high marks to their little darlings, it really is a bad proposal. Basket weaving is a manual skill favoured by American universities with good football teams as an alternative to literacy.
The alternative CA model in the OP dispenses with formal exam marks for CA but doesn't propose to change LC marking.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
CA if properly implemented would be difficult to game. An assortment of pop quizzes, in class essay writing, project submission can be overseen by teachers.

You can also shift the burden of correcting a teachers own students by having other teachers correct it and vice versa.

While I like the points system, the way in which we educate young minds leaves a lot to be desired.
Students think a mechanistic approach geared to guessing exam questions will result in high exam marks, as opposed to a pursuit of learning for its own sake. That's debatable.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
How does it work in other countries then?

Also, the purpose of education will have subjectivity anyway. It’s a bad idea to say that we won’t look to change the system because of some alleged objectivity. At LC level various subjects have subjectivity inbuilt anyway.
With research projects and field work tasks for CA,if LC marks were awarded, cheating would be endemic among students who want to enter high points university departments like law, medicine and actuarial science.
 

CatullusV

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
4,588
With research projects and field work tasks for CA,if LC marks were awarded, cheating would be endemic among students who want to enter high points university departments like law, medicine and actuarial science.
Jesus, you really do have problems. Do they keep you up at night?
 

Sweet Darling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
4,130
Way to many kids in 3rd level now not able for it due to a place for everybody. Trades are no longer good enough for mummy and daddy. Results in stressed kid dropping out in first year
 

the secretary

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
5,820
Many LC subjects are watered down so much that they are shadows of their former selves.
Marking schemes are changed during marking to ensure that a certain amount pass.
Its a farce.
Secondary schools are nothing like they once were, even only a fews years ago. Everything is so student orientated from throwing marks at them, have a constant mindfulness theme running, to stripping schools of any real power of discipline that keeps the place functioning properly.
Our secondary school system is badly broken at present.
 

the secretary

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
5,820
Way to many kids in 3rd level now not able for it due to a place for everybody. Trades are no longer good enough for mummy and daddy. Results in stressed kid dropping out in first year
Many kids drop out in first year because the are not properly prepared at secondary school.
They are wrapped in cotton wool to such an extent that they can't cope with the independence of 3rd level.
Also, the grades they get are inflated allowing them into courses that are too difficult for them.
The dept don't give s f u ck. The grades look good. The 3rd institutions don't give a f u ck, they get numbers through the doors in September and hence get the cash in the bank.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Jesus, you really do have problems. Do they keep you up at night?
I have a grasp on reality and assume people cheat for personal advancement when they think there is a low risk of being found out. There are numerous cases in the US high schools where software statistical analysis discovered teachers were cheating on exam marks to ensure certain money grants.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Way to many kids in 3rd level now not able for it due to a place for everybody. Trades are no longer good enough for mummy and daddy. Results in stressed kid dropping out in first year
Dropping out in first year leaves plenty of time to take up a trade. In the coming boom in housing, construction trades will be paid as well as serious professions given the low take up of apprenticeships.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Many LC subjects are watered down so much that they are shadows of their former selves.
Marking schemes are changed during marking to ensure that a certain amount pass.
Its a farce.
Secondary schools are nothing like they once were, even only a fews years ago. Everything is so student orientated from throwing marks at them, have a constant mindfulness theme running, to stripping schools of any real power of discipline that keeps the place functioning properly.
Our secondary school system is badly broken at present.
In the PISA tests of teenagers, Ireland along with Japan stood out for having among the lowest percentages of students who failed all three tests in maths, science and language. If I remember it correctly, Ireland was about 8% failure rate. Some socialistic countries such as France, Belgium and Austria that spend massively on government had failure rates close to double that, thanks to meddlesome education bureaucracies probably.

Years ago, I met a young Irish woman whose job was to read to young children in socially disadvantaged areas. Maybe programmes like that explain the low failure rate in PISA.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Many kids drop out in first year because the are not properly prepared at secondary school.
They are wrapped in cotton wool to such an extent that they can't cope with the independence of 3rd level.
Also, the grades they get are inflated allowing them into courses that are too difficult for them.
The dept don't give s f u ck. The grades look good. The 3rd institutions don't give a f u ck, they get numbers through the doors in September and hence get the cash in the bank.
Bums on seats strategy! Still, some dropouts may benefit from socialising in university byimproving their social skills. That could help them find good jobs.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,566
Many LC subjects are watered down so much that they are shadows of their former selves.
Marking schemes are changed during marking to ensure that a certain amount pass.
Its a farce.
Secondary schools are nothing like they once were, even only a fews years ago. Everything is so student orientated from throwing marks at them, have a constant mindfulness theme running, to stripping schools of any real power of discipline that keeps the place functioning properly.
Our secondary school system is badly broken at present.
The LC exam papers look demanding.
 
Top