Limerick without a Minister



locke

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I believe there is talk of the Limerick Cork motorway branching off the existing M8 near Cahir or Mitchelstown instead of a new route the whole way (parallel to M8). Some interests, presumably North Cork are dead against it, but it's supposed to save over 300 million, and calls into question what is it that people actually want?

Is it a motorway between the two cities or a motorway for Mallow etc? Time to make some hard decisions, and I can't believe this option wasn't considered before now.
And it has other advantages too.

Build a decent road from Mitchelstown to Waterford and you improve the links from Waterford to both Cork and Limerick.
 

Roberto Jordan

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I believe there is talk of the Limerick Cork motorway branching off the existing M8 near Cahir or Mitchelstown instead of a new route the whole way (parallel to M8). Some interests, presumably North Cork are dead against it, but it's supposed to save over 300 million, and calls into question what is it that people actually want?

Is it a motorway between the two cities or a motorway for Mallow etc? Time to make some hard decisions, and I can't believe this option wasn't considered before now.
I guess if the differential in travel time between limerick and cork is not much different it would be hard to argue with. But ,without studying a map , feels like would be noticeably longer distance.....
 

Orbit v2

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And it has other advantages too.

Build a decent road from Mitchelstown to Waterford and you improve the links from Waterford to both Cork and Limerick.
For a second, I thought you were taking the p!ss. But, the idea has merit. If you spent the same money linking Waterford, Cork and Limerick, with a link on to Galway, you'd have pretty good connections between those cities.
 

locke

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I don't think distance wise it makes a difference of more than a kilometre or two. It may even be shorter from Cork to places like Castletroy and Monaleen.

To the extent I have concerns with it, it's that whether you go via Kilfinane or Ballylanders, you're looking at a difficult route engineering-wise.
 

locke

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Some interests, presumably North Cork are dead against it, but it's supposed to save over 300 million, and calls into question what is it that people actually want?
Thinking about this, the existing road from Cork to Mallow is adequate if you take off all the traffic that is going to/from Limerick, Ennis and Galway. Admittedly, it gets bad between Mallow and Croom, but if that no longer links the main cities, it is not really any more important than other roads linking towns of that size.

Perhaps, retaining the existing road as a National Secondary route (the norm is to downgrade the old road to R level) could soothe resistance. Also, there is a rail line from Cork to Charleville. Adding extra services on that could be a relatively cheap way of adding capacity to north Cork, while also being in line with the ideas of opening stations in Kilbarry, Monard and Blarney.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Minister Quinlivan will look after everything.
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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This is the sound of me not holding my breath.
Patrick O' Donovan is the new man for F.G in Co Limerick and if its F.F back in power it will be Neil Collins top dog..
 

wombat

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For a second, I thought you were taking the p!ss. But, the idea has merit. If you spent the same money linking Waterford, Cork and Limerick, with a link on to Galway, you'd have pretty good connections between those cities.
We don't know what the effects of Brexit will be but it may make the Larne /Channel ports option impracticable. I think we should link the south coast to Rosslare via motorway and complete the M11.
 

statsman

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Not sure I like the idea that Limerick or anywhere else for that matter should have a Minister.

What start that craic and we'll have Junior Ministers for every god forsaken hole in the country.
In principle I agree. In practice all our elections are local, so a big centre of population like Limerick will always want a voice at the table. Also, from a party political perspective, it helps win the second seat. Not ideal by any means, but let's not pretend that any of it is.
 

Roberto Jordan

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I don't think distance wise it makes a difference of more than a kilometre or two. It may even be shorter from Cork to places like Castletroy and Monaleen.

To the extent I have concerns with it, it's that whether you go via Kilfinane or Ballylanders, you're looking at a difficult route engineering-wise.
The latter is probably a bigger deal alright - in particular in up front costs. Because of , as I mentioned earlier, Cork city's poor north to south/ east/ west peripheral access my understanding is that it is ( anecdotally ) already a50-50 in terms of time if one is , for example, at the Jack Lynch tuinnel exit on a friday evening as to whether it is quicker to take the actual cork limerick road ( and face delays trying to get out of cork and further hold ups when Mrs O'brien drives to Buttevant for shopping and Mr O'Neil double parks in Charleville) or whether one takes the motorway, exiting at Mitchelstown and driving over the Galtees.......the challenge is a motorway will have to circumnavigate or traverse hills also.

The earlier shown map of "national" and secondary routes is a joke......kind of reminds me of ranks in the volunteers in the WoI in terms of "inflation" ...the cork -limerick road from mallow to croom is simply not good enough to be considered a national route and I am sure there must be other examples ...albeit none connecting major cities...all points, including the ghost waterford road, have a connection with Dublin and the Limerick -galway route is radically improved versus the past.

I might be gone too long but any road that offers no opportunity to negate impact of slow moving traffic or local movements/ obstacles in towns & villages should simply not be shown as a national primary or secondary road....its a local road.......for example having spent a life time driving east from Connemara into Galway it is no crime that the road is subject to the vageries of a mart bound calf in Maam or a french tourist in Oughterard.....its a local route delivering people from a sparsely populated ( in international terms) region to a urban center....we shouldn't get hung up on it.

City to city connections on the other hand are a different matter.
 

Orbit v2

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I might be gone too long but any road that offers no opportunity to negate impact of slow moving traffic or local movements/ obstacles in towns & villages should simply not be shown as a national primary or secondary road....its a local road.......for example having spent a life time driving east from Connemara into Galway it is no crime that the road is subject to the vageries of a mart bound calf in Maam or a french tourist in Oughterard.....its a local route delivering people from a sparsely populated ( in international terms) region to a urban center....we shouldn't get hung up on it.
That road should be made a tourist attraction for road-planners on the consequences of uncontrolled ribbon development and the effect it has on traffic patterns. Sorry. Way off topic now.
 

Vega1447

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With Michael Noonan's decision to leave cabinet when the new FG leader takes over, Limerick will be without a representative in cabinet for the first time in a long time. While the reality is that neither Noonan nor O'Dea before him have delivered much for the city and county, this may well make matters even worse. In particular, with Shane Ross casting doubt on the immediate viability of the Limerick - Cork motorway, will the lack of a voice at the table be significant?

Ministers aren't "representatives" of their constituency in Cabinet.

They are (I know they often fall short) appointed to manage their Dept and participate in the Government of the country.
 

statsman

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Ministers aren't "representatives" of their constituency in Cabinet.

They are (I know they often fall short) appointed to manage their Dept and participate in the Government of the country.
That's the theory. We all know that the reality is different. I'm not by any means saying it should be, but it is.

In this case, there's a very real possibility that the Limerick East constituency won't return a TD at the next election, with Noonan gone and the local party split between those who support O'Donnell and those who want a younger (possibly female) candidate.
 

Prof Honeydew

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Ministers aren't "representatives" of their constituency in Cabinet.

They are (I know they often fall short) appointed to manage their Dept and participate in the Government of the country.
It's all very well to state that a minister's function is to represent his department's interests but that's like saying the Taoiseach should confine himself to just Europe-wide issues when attending EU summits. In the real world of politics, ministers give constituencies a direct input at the Cabinet table. This is important where location is a factor when major decisions are being made on government investment policy and any main centre of population which doesn't have an effective voice representing it will get overlooked when the goodies are being dished out. It may not be significant in one-off cases but absence of a local champion over an extended period of time seriously damages a place's progress in relation to its competitors.

A very good example of what happens when there's no one standing up for your area is how Limerick fell seriously behind Cork, Galway and even Waterford over the past twenty-five years. During that period, Willie O'Dea was the city's dominant political figure but The Rat's abject failure to represent any interest other than his psychopathic obsession with his personal vote resulted in not just Limerick but the entire Midwest having the lowest population growth in the State and lower levels of investment than the other main centre's of population.

For all his faults, Baldy Noonan made sure Limerick's voice was heard again over the past few years but his departure from the Cabinet will result in a return of the bad old days of the Rathole. Who's going to point out the penny-pinching idiocy of Shane Ross fobbing the main road project between the urban centres outside of Dublin with a side-road off the Dublin-Cork motorway or ensure commitments given to regeneration will not disappear as posh Dublin gobshìte Vladkins takes over as Taoiseach if Limerick's only political input is reduced to O'Dea defacing the TV screen with his vacuous smirk underneath Micheal Martin's elbow at the start of the Taoiseach's questions?
 
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ymmek

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That's the theory. We all know that the reality is different. I'm not by any means saying it should be, but it is.

In this case, there's a very real possibility that the Limerick East constituency won't return a TD at the next election, with Noonan gone and the local party split between those who support O'Donnell and those who want a younger (possibly female) candidate.
I presume you mean a FG td? If so you could not be more wrong.

FG will return at least 1 td in Lim East whether we like it or not and anyone suggesting otherwise is clueless.
 

statsman

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I presume you mean a FG td? If so you could not be more wrong.

FG will return at least 1 td in Lim East whether we like it or not and anyone suggesting otherwise is clueless.
Noonan's personal vote may not transfer to either of the two senators. Mind you, Vlad may enthuse the young vote.
 

ymmek

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Noonan's personal vote may not transfer to either of the two senators. Mind you, Vlad may enthuse the young vote.
FG are best at transferring to each other,Byrne and ODonnell are wide apart in local election terms and if there is only one seat for FG whoever get most votes when it counts gets the seat.

A very good campaign and depending how Vrad is doing could give them two seats.
 


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