List of Property Bubble White Elephants

HanleyS

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This is intended to be a list of white elephant developments with outrageously over blown budgets that will drag at any potential recovery in our economy. Please add your own with examples of alternative projects from Europe or nearby...

Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Construction Cost: EUR 410 Million
Capacity: 51,700

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Construction Cost: GBP 121 Million
Capacity: 74,500

Terminal 2, Dublin Airport
Construction Cost: EUR 600 Million
Floor Area: 75,000 square metres

Terminal 1, Barcelona Airport
Construction Cost: EUR 900 Million
Floor Area: 544,066 square metres

The costs of financing and maintaining these facilities will create upward pressures on other costs and wages in the economy and hamper our competitiveness going forward. How do we CTRL + ALT + DEL our debts and get this show back on the road?
 


Aindriu

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What the hell have Barcelona and Cardiff got to do with the Irish economy???
 

Aindriu

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Nothing! The OP is comparing the cost of projects here and abroad.
We could probably have built them for less than Cardiff & Barcelona. It is the 'brown envelope' that boost the costs here.
 

FakeViking

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Remember this guy:

If there’s the name of one European city on the lips of every metro advocate in Dublin, it’s Madrid. Professor Manuel Maynar Melis, the man behind Madrid’s metro system
A quick google brought up this from 2003:

Dublin Metro Could Be Up And Running By 2006 | BUSRAGE

Melis also had no time for the habit of the State wasting cash on “consultants who consultant with consultants and advisers who advise advisers”, something that has dogged the metro project here from day one. His timeline for consultation and construction is nice and short too, the plans for digging and building could be ready by Feb 2004, with a two to three month consultation period following that, with appropriate changes as a result of consultation being finalised during the following fortnight. After a couple of months of tendering the work, tunnelling could begin, and by November of next year the carriages could be ordered. Stick to that schedule and by the end of 2006 we would have a functioning underground rail system.
Here we are, approaching the end of 2010, the same overpaid incompetent indecisive gobsh1tes in charge, and nothing done.
 

Victor Meldrew

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The costs of financing and maintaining these facilities will create upward pressures on other costs and wages in the economy and hamper our competitiveness going forward. How do we CTRL + ALT + DEL our debts and get this show back on the road?
Consultants and advisor are basically the Mafia here, everyone has to get a slice..

And while we are at it, what ever happened to the concept of a "limited" company?

The contents of NAMA should all have been just let go to the wall. Appoint liquidators and either sell off at present value, or, if un sell-able, "Un-develop" the sites.

Anglo, not of systemic importance, should have been let go under. If the Yanks can do this, why can we, their cheerleaders , not do likewise?
 

Pauli

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We could probably have built them for less than Cardiff & Barcelona. It is the 'brown envelope' that boost the costs here.
The "brown envelope" is a Fianna fail Pork Barrel Gobshyte Tax for the beneficiaries of its selective largesse. It can be anything up to a third of a public contract, depending on the audacity of the budget overrun.
 

HanleyS

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Consultants and advisor are basically the Mafia here, everyone has to get a slice.
If by 'consultants and advisors' you mean everyone from labourers to sparks to civil engineers, then yes. The costs in Ireland are outrageous, especially for construction.
 

MsAnneThrope

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The proposed Thornton Hall prison has to feature although I don't have a reliable comparison in another country. But at a time when an acre of land in the area was selling for between €20,000 at the lower end, and €26,000 at the upper end, our thrifty Government saw no problem paying €200,000 an acre.

the agent at the centre of the deal, Ronan Webster, of CB Richard Ellis Gunne, was paid about €150,000 for his work in advising the department's selection committee [...]

In addition to Webster's fee, which has been subject to criticism from opposition TDs, some have questioned his relationship with the owner of the Thornton Hall site, Richard Lynam.

According to the department's minutes, Webster informed the committee on January 18 - the day it was proposed that the committee look at Thornton Hall - that Lynam was the brother-in-law of his second cousin, independent senator Joe O'Toole [...]

Lynam had not originally submitted his land for consideration, and had missed the February 23 deadline.

It had been claimed that a local auctioneer, acting on behalf of the Lynams, brought the site to the IPS' attention, but neighbours of the Lynams claim that the state actually approached the family
Sunday Business Post 2005: McDowell's prison deal in the dock
 

Victor Meldrew

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If by 'consultants and advisors' you mean everyone from labourers to sparks to civil engineers, then yes. The costs in Ireland are outrageous, especially for construction.
OK, the guys ACTUALLY building and designing the places were over paid, and we all know how much over valued the land was, but, at least these were "market driven",

It's the consultants commissioning feasibility reports and sitting on Quango Boards, supposedly giving a sheen of good governance that I'm referring to. Sure why else did Bertie put his mates on boards?
 

NYCKY

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This is intended to be a list of white elephant developments with outrageously over blown budgets that will drag at any potential recovery in our economy. Please add your own with examples of alternative projects from Europe or nearby...

Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Construction Cost: EUR 410 Million
Capacity: 51,700

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Construction Cost: GBP 121 Million
Capacity: 74,500

Terminal 2, Dublin Airport
Construction Cost: EUR 600 Million
Floor Area: 75,000 square metres

Terminal 1, Barcelona Airport
Construction Cost: EUR 900 Million
Floor Area: 544,066 square metres

The costs of financing and maintaining these facilities will create upward pressures on other costs and wages in the economy and hamper our competitiveness going forward. How do we CTRL + ALT + DEL our debts and get this show back on the road?
Oh yea, those major white elephants. Lansdowne Rd was such a chic modern development it would surely have lasted another 50 years. What a dilapidated dump, was it even safe?

As for Dublin airport, what a well run airport!! So easy to get around, short distance to gates etc. Seriously that airport probably needs a third terminal.
 

HanleyS

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Oh yea, those major white elephants. Lansdowne Rd was such a chic modern development it would surely have lasted another 50 years. What a dilapidated dump, was it even safe?

As for Dublin airport, what a well run airport!! So easy to get around, short distance to gates etc. Seriously that airport probably needs a third terminal.
Sarcasm Fail. The point of the thread is not to highlight the developments themselves, rather the overblown cost of them. Read the thread before posting next time.
 

NYCKY

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Sarcasm Fail. The point of the thread is not to highlight the developments themselves, rather the overblown cost of them. Read the thread before posting next time.
If there is a sarcasm fail its not on my end at all. I did reread the original post in case I missed something but alas I didn't. Why is there nothing included about the construction/business costs in Spain and Wales. Everyone knows that Ireland has some of the highest costs in Europe, even today, never mind a couple of years ago during the good old boom days.
 

HanleyS

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If there is a sarcasm fail its not on my end at all. I did reread the original post in case I missed something but alas I didn't. Why is there nothing included about the construction/business costs in Spain and Wales. Everyone knows that Ireland has some of the highest costs in Europe, even today, never mind a couple of years ago during the good old boom days.
The point of the thread is addressing the legacy of debt created by the overblown costs on these original projects and other such Celtic Tiger white elephants. Also the effects of this legacy of debt on the necessary wage and cost deflation cycle in the wider economy. I can't give any more explanation than that.
 
D

Dylan2010

O'Leary ftw! he was more on the money then the dead hand of the state and DAA mafia/monopoly. At least his shareholders can take take a baseball bat to his ego if he looses the run of himself.
 

HanleyS

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O'Leary ftw! he was more on the money then the dead hand of the state and DAA mafia/monopoly. At least his shareholders can take take a baseball bat to his ego if he looses the run of himself.
Even if Ireland did have a future as a Shanghi type regional hub the development costs would make it wholly unattractive to airlines seeking such a hub. A LoCo terminal probably would have been more in tune with the market.
 


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