London Banks moving to Dublin ? : does Nigel know we will force his kids to learn Irish at school ?

DJP

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FYI most Irish legislation (and related documents) today comes from Brussels, this is the main reason for the need for these translators. If Irish is a working language, official documents must be provided in Irish. Otherwise you are arguing for Irish to be a symbolic language, a hobby language. I know you'd be fine with that, but those of us who use Irish in our everyday lives are not.
Irish is a symbolic language in the EU thanks to the status that is in process.
 


Barroso

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Ní thaitin mé Fine Gael. But I like the way they say they are going to fund 6 Gaeilscoileanna. It is outrageous that 750,000e was unspent.
I also like the fact that more Gaelscoileanna are going to be opened; but remember that there is little or no extra money being spent here - these kids will have public money spent on their education whether it is in a Gaelscoil, an Educate Together or a Catholic or Protestant school.
And it's only a few schools - there ten, fifteen schools being opened every year in the early 90s.
 

Barroso

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Irish is a symbolic language in the EU thanks to the status that is in process.
Having services available in Irish means that it is not a symbolic language, but a genuine working language, albeit it a third tier one. You can consult legislation, bring a court case, look up documentation in Irish. Which is what it is about: the EU is a legislating organisation, it produces legal documents, its courts produce legal decisions. Being able to access these services through Irish makes it a working language; although not the internal working language, which is in the first instance English, followed by French and German.

It was a symbolic language until the previous regime (with only the treaties being made available in Irish) was brought to an end in 2007 or thereabouts; although it still hasn't reached full equality with, for instance, Maltese (an Arabic dialect) or Estonian, the next smallest official languages in the EU.
 

DJP

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I can't agree with you here, red. IMO, s/he is a sort of red herring put out by FG - their sop to the language.
Like McHugh, who looks and sounds sincere, but the cuts come nevertheless.
Wasn't 750,000€ of money for Irish sent back to the exchequer last year because they couldn't find things to spend the money on? I wonder what DJP's thoughts on that are.
If you think that I am a member of FG and "put out by FG" to post on this site then you know little to nothing about that party. And what cuts is Joe McHugh initiating in relation to the Irish language? And while yes it may be somewhat surprising that 750,000 euro was not spent by An Foras Teanga last year judging by how a lot of the money is wasted on promoting Irish a lot of that money if it had been spent would probably not going by past experience have been spent on anything tangible.
 

DJP

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Having services available in Irish means that it is not a symbolic language, but a genuine working language, albeit it a third tier one. You can consult legislation, bring a court case, look up documentation in Irish. Which is what it is about: the EU is a legislating organisation, it produces legal documents, its courts produce legal decisions. Being able to access these services through Irish makes it a working language; although not the internal working language, which is in the first instance English, followed by French and German.

It was a symbolic language until the previous regime (with only the treaties being made available in Irish) was brought to an end in 2007 or thereabouts; although it still hasn't reached full equality with, for instance, Maltese (an Arabic dialect) or Estonian, the next smallest official languages in the EU.
And how many people make use of the services of all these Irish language translators and interpreters?
 

Barroso

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If you think that I am a member of FG and "put out by FG" to post on this site then you know little to nothing about that party. And what cuts is Joe McHugh initiating in relation to the Irish language? And while yes it may be somewhat surprising that 750,000 euro was not spent by An Foras Teanga last year judging by how a lot of the money is wasted on promoting Irish a lot of that money if it had been spent would probably not going by past experience have been spent on anything tangible.
Well, you obviously know your own situation better than I do, but in juxtaposition to FWI's posts, your posts give me a strong feeling of "good cop, bad cop".

Whether it is intentional or coincindental may be another story.
 

Barroso

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And how many people make use of the services of all these Irish language translators and interpreters?
That's for future generations to decide - these services are the legal basis for our membership of the EU. Mostly they will be used by organisations, for instance, Údarás na Gaeltachta. I think the Dáil translation services may also rely on these documents in producing the Irish versions of Irish laws.
As more organisations are set up using Irish as their internal working language, they will be used by more bodies.
For instance, if/when a 3rd level college is set up teaching through Irish, they will access them; and so on.

These documents are not for today alone, but also for the future.
If you want Irish to develop, it follows that you will want this type of service to be available.
The corrollary to that of course is that if you do not want these services, then you want Irish people to use the main alternative - English.
And having read your posts over a period of years, I believe the latter is your position. English First, I believe they call it in the USA.
 

DJP

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As more organisations are set up using Irish as their internal working language, they will be used by more bodies.
I wish I was wrong but there is I believe no evidence of this happening.

Edit: unless by organisations you mean new gaelscoileanna.
 
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Barroso

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I wish I was wrong but there is I believe no evidence of this happening.
Among the reasons for there being no evidence of this happening is the fact that people like you keep arguing for spending no more money on services in Irish.
 

DJP

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Among the reasons for there being no evidence of this happening is the fact that people like you keep arguing for spending no more money on services in Irish.
I agree with money being spent on services through Irish but it's generally a two-way street- there has to or should I believe be a demand for the services. I could wait for the demand to come for Irish language EU services but I don't' believe that much of a demand is going to ever come. Irish (if the translation system in general was changed) could be an official language of the EU and have educational and some legalistic translation services while not have 200 Irish language translators and interpreters.
 

redneck

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It is not true to say that Irish language money is wasted. It is not. It is a good investment by the state imho. Bíonn sé an mhaith.
I would like to see Radio Near fm, for example be given more money for Irish language programming. Maybe "Ar muin na muice" LOL. Slán.
 

DJP

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It is not true to say that Irish language money is wasted. It is not. It is a good investment by the state imho. Bíonn sé an mhaith.
I would like to see Radio Near fm, for example be given more money for Irish language programming. Maybe "Ar muin na muice" LOL. Slán.
Near FM does not I believe get any money for Irish language programming. There are only two of us presenting Irish language programmes on the station, and my programme is a fortnightly programme and not a weekly programme. If there was a lot more creativity from Irish speakers like in the community voluntary sector and community media and more voluntary-created podcasts created as well as a lot more gaeilgeoirí seeking services through Irish I would be delighted. But that isn't the case.
 

redneck

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Gaelpobal Tamhlacht have some good ideas for spreading the use of an Gaeilge.
 

Fun with Irish

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And how many people make use of the services of all these Irish language translators and interpreters?
Tuairisc.ie wrote on July 18th 2019 that out of 9,070 requests to Irish law courts to provide interpreters, two were for Irish.

Obviously there will be more demand for Irish legal texts in Strasbourg because of the great number of Irish legal translators that will be lodged there. They can request them from one another.
 

DJP

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At least the Irish Language Translation Heritage third level courses should increase the number of suitably qualified candidates by 2022. In the last couple of years only 25% of jobs listed as going for Irish language translators were filled. It's a funny old world where at the heart of the EU we will have 200 Irish people working on promoting Irish heritage within EU institutions.
 

Fun with Irish

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Well, you obviously know your own situation better than I do, but in juxtaposition to FWI's posts, your posts give me a strong feeling of "good cop, bad cop".

Whether it is intentional or coincindental may be another story.
The National Parents Council (Primary) conducted a survey of parent opinion about the granting of exemptions to school children from having to learn Irish. It was pretty extensive and influenced the new circulars on the subject from the DES. Worth perusing.

It was also a historical event: that was the first time since the launching of the Revival of Irish in 1923 that parents of schoolchildren were asked their opinion about any aspect of it.

I put up the info on sites.google.com/site/failedrevival.
 

redneck

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The National Parents Council (Primary) conducted a survey of parent opinion about the granting of exemptions to school children from having to learn Irish. It was pretty extensive and influenced the new circulars on the subject from the DES. Worth perusing.

It was also a historical event: that was the first time since the launching of the Revival of Irish in 1923 that parents of schoolchildren were asked their opinion about any aspect of it.

I put up the info on sites.google.com/site/failedrevival.
Why do you hate Irish so much. And say nothing about the Scottish government and Welsh Assembly push for their own languages. (for example)
 

DJP

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Why do you hate Irish so much. And say nothing about the Scottish government and Welsh Assembly push for their own languages. (for example)
To be fair Scottish Gaelic is only taught in a small number of schools in Scotland and Welsh is (I think) optional for the last two years of secondary school.
 

Fun with Irish

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Why do you hate Irish so much. And say nothing about the Scottish government and Welsh Assembly push for their own languages. (for example)
Have you read the National Parents Council poll on parent opinion about the exemption of (their) children from learning Irish.
(Item '2019 NPC submission etc' on website 'sites/google.com/site/failedrevival').

I'd say that the NPC poll has finally let the cat out of the bag. It has been trying to claw its way out for a long long time.
 


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