Looking for help on the piano. . .

Joined
Oct 8, 2011
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39,552
. . . the kids are sort of musical and got a fairly high-end Yamaha for Xmas.

There's no fuppin way that I'm spending all that money unless I can relearn the piano on it. They are in bed betimes and I have nothing else to do.

As a child I had a few weeks of lessons before the woodworm took the poor beast on which I played; that or my thrashing on its keys.

This beast is an even less forgiven beast. The keys are weighted beautifully, but need carefully sequenced pressure or one dominates the other.

This is my aim in the immediate couple of months:

[video=youtube;6mbhHx7eMog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mbhHx7eMog[/video]

Sounds nice. I have the left hand sorted out (sort of). The little finger is a tad sore, though.

I'm progressing to the right hand. That is rather more intricate and I haven't even started there.

There may be - must be - lots of good training stuff out there. Any pointers?
 


12 bens

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Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
1,765
. . . the kids are sort of musical and got a fairly high-end Yamaha for Xmas.

There's no fuppin way that I'm spending all that money unless I can relearn the piano on it. They are in bed betimes and I have nothing else to do.

As a child I had a few weeks of lessons before the woodworm took the poor beast on which I played; that or my thrashing on its keys.

This beast is an even less forgiven beast. The keys are weighted beautifully, but need carefully sequenced pressure or one dominates the other.

This is my aim in the immediate couple of months:

[video=youtube;6mbhHx7eMog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mbhHx7eMog[/video]

Sounds nice. I have the left hand sorted out (sort of). The little finger is a tad sore, though.

I'm progressing to the right hand. That is rather more intricate and I haven't even started there.

There may be - must be - lots of good training stuff out there. Any pointers?
Buy the sheet music and learn to read the dots.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Pointers in general or just for that piece?

What's your hand span?

If you want to strengthen your fingers - the 4th is the one that needs that needs the biggest work out - then Leschetizky method may be worth considering. It's basic enough, and whilst occasionally it can be dry, he focuses on the physical aspects of piano playing. There is some theory, but it's not beyond a man of your intelligence.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leschetizky-Method-Guide-Correct-Playing-ebook/dp/B00DLYUPR0/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483392418&sr=1-3&keywords=leschetizky

There's also the book of scales and chords. I can't remember what it's called, but I'll dig it out and post the title (it's probably called "scales and chords"). Anyway, it has every conceivable chord, third, fifth, enharmonic, harmonic, chromatic etc. complete with fingering.

Is it a grand, baby grand, upright you're playing on? How many pedals? sostenuto pedal?
 

ger12

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
I took lessons a couple of years ago, well worth it. Clachta clachta clachta.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
39,552
Pointers in general or just for that piece?

What's your hand span?

If you want to strengthen your fingers - the 4th is the one that needs that needs the biggest work out - then Leschetizky method may be worth considering. It's basic enough, and whilst occasionally it can be dry, he focuses on the physical aspects of piano playing. There is some theory, but it's not beyond a man of your intelligence.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leschetizky-Method-Guide-Correct-Playing-ebook/dp/B00DLYUPR0/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483392418&sr=1-3&keywords=leschetizky

There's also the book of scales and chords. I can't remember what it's called, but I'll dig it out and post the title (it's probably called "scales and chords"). Anyway, it has every conceivable chord, third, fifth, enharmonic, harmonic, chromatic etc. complete with fingering.

Is it a grand, baby grand, upright you're playing on? How many pedals? sostenuto pedal?
It's a keyboard, the Yamaha P-115. The only pedal is the sustain. It can be set up i a more permanent position than the trestle provided. It has a wonderful rich sound and seems to have great reviews.

I have to say that already I am feeling the stress on the fingers and it is great for me that you point that out. It's reassuring. It may mean that I'm doing something right. I have large hands, so maybe I can practice octaves with my thumb and my fourth finger. My hands are pretty strng, so it has been an experience to find out just how physical it is to play the keys after 40 years. Maybe I need to attack the keys from a different angle.

I'd definitely appreciate a link.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Here ye go Des my son,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manual-Scales-Broken-Chords-Arpeggios/dp/1860961126/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483393532&sr=1-1&keywords=the+manual+of+scales+broken+chords+and+arpeggios

It's published by the ABRSM (useful then if you decide to take their exams).

I'd focus on this stuff, the bread and butter as they say. It covers similar and contrary motion in the scales (chromatic and diatonic), double thirds, octaves, melodic, harmonic minors.

Shewer, ye'll be banging out the Waldstein in a month or two.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

It's a keyboard, the Yamaha P-115. The only pedal is the sustain. It can be set up i a more permanent position than the trestle provided. It has a wonderful rich sound and seems to have great reviews.

I have to say that already I am feeling the stress on the fingers and it is great for me that you point that out. It's reassuring. It may mean that I'm doing something right. I have large hands, so maybe I can practice octaves with my thumb and my fourth finger. My hands are pretty strng, so it has been an experience to find out just how physical it is to play the keys after 40 years. Maybe I need to attack the keys from a different angle.

I'd definitely appreciate a link.
Finger strength is important, but that'll come as you practice a bit (hopefully you'll stick at it, coz it'll prove very satisfying, even if you learn a simple piece).

Octaves with the thumb and fourth finger when you want a smooth "legato" transition to 1st and fifth. I think the rule of thumb [:D] is to play octaves with the first and fifth, and I think that's because of weight distribution of fingers or summat.

The way I was taught (years and years ago) was to cup your fingers on your knee. That's how your hands should sit at the keys. Yer man's book says something along the lines of sitting at the piano is similar to sitting on a horse. Probably depends on your body shape though (wasn't it Glen Gould who'd undulate his hips when playing?).

I think that book of scales is brilliant.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
39,552
Here ye go Des my son,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manual-Scales-Broken-Chords-Arpeggios/dp/1860961126/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483393532&sr=1-1&keywords=the+manual+of+scales+broken+chords+and+arpeggios

It's published by the ABRSM (useful then if you decide to take their exams).

I'd focus on this stuff, the bread and butter as they say. It covers similar and contrary motion in the scales (chromatic and diatonic), double thirds, octaves, melodic, harmonic minors.

Shewer, ye'll be banging out the Waldstein in a month or two.
It has been ordered. The kids have been taking music for the last year in the local conservatoire. The have yet to touch an instrument there except in fun. It seems to be all about the big approach and he starts next week on the trombone while she starts on guitar. His ultimate aim is violin (he has one and has been learning his bowing and fingering), while she is learning percussion also.

This gets to the strange to ting to me, which is when you see musicians happily switch from instrument to instrument. I'd be happy to play one, but you see the guys in REM or the Beatles happily hopping from from keyboard to frets to percussion to whatever.

If I can play that REM piece this month I will be very happy; it may inspire them.

More than that I want a part piece - more than REM. I was able to hack out some Chopin once and it would be nice to do it again.
 

12 bens

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
1,765
It has been ordered. The kids have been taking music for the last year in the local conservatoire. The have yet to touch an instrument there except in fun. It seems to be all about the big approach and he starts next week on the trombone while she starts on guitar. His ultimate aim is violin (he has one and has been learning his bowing and fingering), while she is learning percussion also.

This gets to the strange to ting to me, which is when you see musicians happily switch from instrument to instrument. I'd be happy to play one, but you see the guys in REM or the Beatles happily hopping from from keyboard to frets to percussion to whatever.

If I can play that REM piece this month I will be very happy; it may inspire them.

More than that I want a part piece - more than REM. I was able to hack out some Chopin once and it would be nice to do it again.
Try Erik Satie's Gymnopedies.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

It has been ordered. The kids have been taking music for the last year in the local conservatoire. The have yet to touch an instrument there except in fun. It seems to be all about the big approach and he starts next week on the trombone while she starts on guitar. His ultimate aim is violin (he has one and has been learning his bowing and fingering), while she is learning percussion also.

This gets to the strange to ting to me, which is when you see musicians happily switch from instrument to instrument. I'd be happy to play one, but you see the guys in REM or the Beatles happily hopping from from keyboard to frets to percussion to whatever.

If I can play that REM piece this month I will be very happy; it may inspire them.

More than that I want a part piece - more than REM. I was able to hack out some Chopin once and it would be nice to do it again.
If they show an interest or aptitude for the kb, then you'll probably have to get a piano (the action is just completely different to a kb IMO).

Aye, some people are just born with a gift for music. It must be incredibly rewarding being able to create as they do.

Chopin's really tricky. The etudes have put the fear of the almighty into some virtuosos.

I'd just focus on scales and finger strengthening. Don't mind those books with titles like "Learn to play mozart in a month". It's bollox.

If you're a Chopin lover and would like to learn a piece then there's a prelude that is fairly straightforward. I can't remember the prelude number but yer wan Anne Archer played it in that movie Fatal Attraction. It's one page long and has a simple melody and accompaniment.

Raindrop prelude is do-able as well, but I'd keep away from all that stuff until you've mastered scales and chords. See how it goes anyway. You're quite the renaissance man Mr Q.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

This one:

[video=youtube;rNUOIzCeSIY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUOIzCeSIY[/video]
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
39,552
If they show an interest or aptitude for the kb, then you'll probably have to get a piano (the action is just completely different to a kb IMO).

Aye, some people are just born with a gift for music. It must be incredibly rewarding being able to create as they do.

Chopin's really tricky. The etudes have put the fear of the almighty into some virtuosos.

I'd just focus on scales and finger strengthening. Don't mind those books with titles like "Learn to play mozart in a month". It's bollox.

If you're a Chopin lover and would like to learn a piece then there's a prelude that is fairly straightforward. I can't remember the prelude number but yer wan Anne Archer played it in that movie Fatal Attraction. It's one page long and has a simple melody and accompaniment.

Raindrop prelude is do-able as well, but I'd keep away from all that stuff until you've mastered scales and chords. See how it goes anyway. You're quite the renaissance man Mr Q.
I'm taking the advice on, but yes, finger strengthening seems to be on the list. I simply cannot believe how resistant the keys were and that felt after a while.

A piano will be bought when they merit it. I don't remember the pianos that I played as a child being so heavy or so light as this one, although I'm told the weighting is pretty professional. I practically have to hammer the light keys and can breath on the low registers.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

I'm taking the advice on, but yes, finger strengthening seems to be on the list. I simply cannot believe how resistant the keys were and that felt after a while.

A piano will be bought when they merit it. I don't remember the pianos that I played as a child being so heavy or so light as this one, although I'm told the weighting is pretty professional. I practically have to hammer the light keys and can breath on the low registers.
Yeh. A friend of mine went off and bought a piano for the childer. Kids lost interest in it after a few months. So he'd to get rid of it.

I thought the action on an electronic keyboard would be very soft? Yer man on the Pet Shop Boys could glissando his casio keys with one bored frown.

The first piano we had when I was a boy was a piece of junk, hand me down that the Grand Daddy wanted to dump. So he dumped it in our gaf. It had a honky tonk sound and a soft action. Shyte, but I got to practise on it.

20 years ago, I bought a second hand Gor and Kallman from a piano tuner. Heavy action, so it's tough on the fingers, but I liked it because it had a sombre bass and mellifluous treble (similar to a Pleyel, but obviously not to the same high quality).

Anyway, I think the actions and sounds vary depending on the manufacturer. If you decided to move from electronic kb to piano, get a cheap one. Don't go off getting bosendorfers. Soon as you get one, the childer will decide they want to learn the euekele, coz yer wan across the road is learning it.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

[video=youtube;JJ-86r6xoK4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ-86r6xoK4[/video]
 


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