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Lord Kilclooney aka John Taylor ex UUP describes Leo Varadkar as a typical Indian - racist ?




GDPR

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Unsurprising.

Nationalists from the Republic never bestirred themselves to find out about the North.

They either projected a War of Independence narrative on the North or some 1960s cod-Marxist analysis.

Northerners understand the South a lot better than vice versa.
 

Niall996

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Mission complete on that front.

But the Irish are loathe to consign it to history, the Irish nation now are more protestant than most countries, I would say that Norway has more conservative and religious values than modern Ireland.

The young in Ireland have never heard anything but horror stories about the RCC of the past and yet it persists with communions and Conformations still part of the general culture. Beggers belief
'Religious' events or originated are just a series of community rituals. Excuses to come together, get dressed up, have some craic, have a drink, create new memories. They're not really profound religious experiences or statements of religious beliefs. They're habit as much as anything else. 99% of people I know who are Catholics rarely go to mass. You only have to go to a mass today and see the straggle of grey haired attendees. But they often have a personal belief. They have no idea of the rules, regulations, doctrines, codes etc. They just believe in the basic story and take a certain comfort and assurance from it that there's an afterlife. That's about it. a reason to believe you'll see your loved ones again. That this isn't all there is. The ideal of a UI has nothing to do with the Catholic church or the GAA in my view. It's something else entirely. Okay, easy for me to say that as an atheist but I'm the oddball. The vast majority of people I meet, no matter what their background or wealth or job look at me perplexed when I tell them I'm an atheist. It's like telling someone you've never eaten potatoes or been in an airplane. But none of them with whom I've ever had a conversation about a UI would ever connect their Catholic or pseudo Catholic beliefs or Catholic origins to a UI aspiration.
 

Eire1976

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'Religious' events or originated are just a series of community rituals. Excuses to come together, get dressed up, have some craic, have a drink, create new memories. They're not really profound religious experiences or statements of religious beliefs. They're habit as much as anything else. 99% of people I know who are Catholics rarely go to mass. You only have to go to a mass today and see the straggle of grey haired attendees. But they often have a personal belief. They have no idea of the rules, regulations, doctrines, codes etc. They just believe in the basic story and take a certain comfort and assurance from it that there's an afterlife. That's about it. a reason to believe you'll see your loved ones again. That this isn't all there is. The ideal of a UI has nothing to do with the Catholic church or the GAA in my view. It's something else entirely. Okay, easy for me to say that as an atheist but I'm the oddball. The vast majority of people I meet, no matter what their background or wealth or job look at me perplexed when I tell them I'm an atheist. It's like telling someone you've never eaten potatoes or been in an airplane. But none of them with whom I've ever had a conversation about a UI would ever connect their Catholic or pseudo Catholic beliefs or Catholic origins to a UI aspiration.
Agree with everything you wrote there. Religion doesn't feature with regards to a UI for Irish people, its more a matter of getting rid of the British establishment off Irish property.

With the endless scandals, you would think that most priests would defect to form their won Christian church or something alike.

There's a lot of good there too, I remember the missions heading off to teach and give medical care in the days past and that was its greatest good.
 

mac tíre

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I know all about it, its called a rhetorical question to prove a point.

I wrote earlier that a loyalist would slit your throat to maintain NI under British rule for one day longer.

By allowing yourselves to be referred to by religion terms, you are reinforcing that hatred.

Do you not see the point or are you arrogantly ignoring?
Err, violent unionists did not check birth certificates or census forms before they killed people. They merely went in to an area or establishment and took out the first people they saw. It had nothing to do with whether the victim saw themselves as Catholic, went to Mass, Confession etc.
 

NMunsterman

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Err, violent unionists did not check birth certificates or census forms before they killed people. They merely went in to an area or establishment and took out the first people they saw. It had nothing to do with whether the victim saw themselves as Catholic, went to Mass, Confession etc.
.....run, aided and abetted by the RUC Special Branch and British Intelligence.
 

puffin

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Aug 2, 2012
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'Religious' events or originated are just a series of community rituals. Excuses to come together, get dressed up, have some craic, have a drink, create new memories. They're not really profound religious experiences or statements of religious beliefs. They're habit as much as anything else. 99% of people I know who are Catholics rarely go to mass. You only have to go to a mass today and see the straggle of grey haired attendees. But they often have a personal belief. They have no idea of the rules, regulations, doctrines, codes etc. They just believe in the basic story and take a certain comfort and assurance from it that there's an afterlife. That's about it. a reason to believe you'll see your loved ones again. That this isn't all there is. The ideal of a UI has nothing to do with the Catholic church or the GAA in my view. It's something else entirely. Okay, easy for me to say that as an atheist but I'm the oddball. The vast majority of people I meet, no matter what their background or wealth or job look at me perplexed when I tell them I'm an atheist. It's like telling someone you've never eaten potatoes or been in an airplane. But none of them with whom I've ever had a conversation about a UI would ever connect their Catholic or pseudo Catholic beliefs or Catholic origins to a UI aspiration.
So how do you relate to someone like me , who is both a Unionist and an atheist, stop trying to take the moral high ground, you said on this site you would buy AK47s with bitcoins, now we all know you are a ************************er, but this proves you are a ************************er with a deep sectarian core.
 

Craigmore..

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So how do you relate to someone like me , who is both a Unionist and an atheist, stop trying to take the moral high ground, you said on this site you would buy AK47s with bitcoins, now we all know you are a ************************er, but this proves you are a ************************er with a deep sectarian core.
And in the next/previous breath he was probably masturbating about census figures that showed a Catholic majority and therefore the inevitable UI.
 

Paddyc

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Mission complete on that front.

But the Irish are loathe to consign it to history, the Irish nation now are more protestant than most countries, I would say that Norway has more conservative and religious values than modern Ireland.

The young in Ireland have never heard anything but horror stories about the RCC of the past and yet it persists with communions and Conformations still part of the general culture. Beggers belief
Mission not remotely completed. The RCC still runs the majority of schools and hospitals. A huge amount of that is down to inertia and a little bit of snobbery. If a yummy mummy wants to get her precious into one of the top schools, she will need a baptism cert.

The fact that the RCC's ownership of schools and hospitals doesn't remotely reflect their current place in society is the next challenge to be met.
 

Mick Mac

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And in the next/previous breath he was probably masturbating about census figures that showed a Catholic majority and therefore the inevitable UI.
Well the one thing that's coming is a Catholic majority. Taigs everywhere craigmore.

Lord kilclooney will love it and he will live to see it.
 

NMunsterman

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Well the one thing that's coming is a Catholic majority. Taigs everywhere craigmore.

Lord kilclooney will love it and he will live to see it.

Craigy and his chums had better get busy re-painting all the kerbstones from KAT * to LAT ** - after all, they are the ones who will be boss and they will decide the destiny of the North.

* KAT = "Kill All Taigs"
** LAT = "Love All Taigs"

2021 - Unionists set to celebrate how they managed to transform an overwhelming 70/30 Unionist "permanent" majority Orange Apartheid sectarian stateleteen in 1921 into a Taig majority stateleteen by 2021.

As our American friends might say "Fukkin' A".
 

DeathKnell

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I am a unionist from NI, but I have no demand that the RC church would have to be banned for a UI to work.

The RC church would be free to exist, but its influence in the ROI would need to be eliminated.
Genuine question - if you are genuine - What influence does it really have anymore? If that was the only reason to fear a UI - which was definitely an issue up to 30 years ago - I would agree - However - I think its been well and truly debunked, defrocked and divided at this point. That trend continues. I think many of the protestant faith still have a old fashioned view of RoI formed - before during and after the visit of JPII in the early 80s.

In fact as you see - there are many who are positively hostile to the RC church - if not quite to the faith itself.

Hypothetically - what would be the demands - as you put - be for you to join a UI - I fancy that you will not reply.
 

DeathKnell

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Unsurprising.

Nationalists from the Republic never bestirred themselves to find out about the North.

They either projected a War of Independence narrative on the North or some 1960s cod-Marxist analysis.

Northerners understand the South a lot better than vice versa.
This is true for some - but not all.
As a Southie - with a Nordie Mother - I've seen it - the fear, suspicion and hate that the 2 communities regard each other.
I am under no illusions.
Please remember - there is a majority in the South that will naturally want unification - if a socio-economic viable plan is laid out. One that has the backing of the UK, US, EU and other money - with a phased handover.
 

Ireniall

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I've noted that but things wont change much until people of the Protestant religion can be Irish without any suspicion.

Ireland has made huge strides in social change, all to throw off the reins of the RCC but they have yet to make it acceptable to be Protestant and Irish.

If you all hate the RCC so much, why not get rid of it totally and adopt a benign Christian church to participate in religiously.

This could open the door a lot wider for Unionists to forget about the link to the UK.
You are asking them to give up their British allegiance before they can become Irish so that the effect of what you are saying would be to ensure that they reject being Irish. What good is that?
 

Ireniall

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Your view is fair enough.

I'm not Irish then according to this definition.

Tell me this though - say a UI does happen in the future and I end up in a bigger ROI - the united Ireland. If I still don't like it, even though it has happened, would I still not be Irish? I still wouldn't be "some sort of a united Ireland person".

I suppose that I'd be in a position similar to the position that the Eagle is currently in - the bigger ROI would count me as being Irish even though that's not what I would identify as.
I suppose if this stuff was easy it would have been solved long ago. Where you are headed is becoming a British minority in a foreign country like has happened around the world whereas where I would prefer to have you is an alternative version of Irish which you once were anyway. I agreed fully with your earlier post that we are essentially the same stock going back in history and our division is superficial enough in reality. I suspect that east Ulster is possibly more native than eastern Leinster for instance but that doesn't even matter anyway. Really -who cares where we all came from outside its being a very interesting academic exercise. Find a way to be Irish again and start telling us what we need to do to facilitate it.
 

GDPR

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This is true for some - but not all.
As a Southie - with a Nordie Mother - I've seen it - the fear, suspicion and hate that the 2 communities regard each other.
I am under no illusions.
Please remember - there is a majority in the South that will naturally want unification - if a socio-economic viable plan is laid out. One that has the backing of the UK, US, EU and other money - with a phased handover.
Let face it, you would unify with Moldova if that is your criteria.
 

Ireniall

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While it's odd I don't know that it's crap.

If it's what he believes then it's what he believes.

I'd say that the attitude is similar to all of those who haven't lived in a unique mix - one like NI. If you live safely in the solidly defined parts of countries then you have blunt rules that fail to take into account the complexity of places that do have to deal with unique mixes.

Thus someone from Cork will be like someone from London - they've never had to think about complexity (and have never had their identity challenged), and thus make blunt statements about people in NI.
I would defend my position by saying that I want both sides to adopt a position which puts the least distance with the other and make a set of fairly loose rules which encourages this. We have two competing nationalities at this stage which we want to modify such that they don't exclude each other so much. It is up to the people of NI to do this primarily but obviously if the new identity excludes the south then it cannot be accepted as Irish with any credibility.

Raetsels excellent contributions have persuaded me that Nationalists are not really abandoning their Irish identity with this but there is still the situation with Unionists near total rejection of it. I am all in favour of some sort of conversation with Unionists in which a common nationality which didn't compromise their position and allowed them to be Irish and British -in the same way as English ,Welsh and Scottish people are able to do- while still sharing a nationality with us. I am not in favour of accepting as Irish any nationality which excludes the rest of the island and most especially one which positively rejects being Irish and views the Republic as a foreign country. I think that this is only fair. I don't know what that mad wan from Antrim is getting so upset about:)
 

Niall996

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Mission not remotely completed. The RCC still runs the majority of schools and hospitals. A huge amount of that is down to inertia and a little bit of snobbery. If a yummy mummy wants to get her precious into one of the top schools, she will need a baptism cert.

The fact that the RCC's ownership of schools and hospitals doesn't remotely reflect their current place in society is the next challenge to be met.
I'm not involved in the Irish school system but my memory is that most parents, being only marginally religious themselves, tend to throw their kids into a religious school as a sort of hedging their bets default. It's more a cultural continuation rather than any real religious zeal.
 

Niall996

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So how do you relate to someone like me , who is both a Unionist and an atheist, stop trying to take the moral high ground, you said on this site you would buy AK47s with bitcoins, now we all know you are a ************************er, but this proves you are a ************************er with a deep sectarian core.
I don't relate to you because I don't know you. Never met you. Although you seem to be a bit, ehm, tense.
 

derryman

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I have no questions about my identity. I am Irish. I am Irishborn and living in the north of Ireland. It is really simple ,really. Now if other people want to describe me as nationalist or republican or unionist or loyalist I don't care I am simply Irish that's all. Now I lived overseas for a long time , and in all of that time I felt no need to tell anyone I was Irish, neither did I feel any need to tell my children they were not Australian . Had I attempted to do so I would have been called out for the Looney that I would have been.
 

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