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Losing faith in democracy? Time for dictatorship?


Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,093
I am starting to lose faith in democracy. As a staunch believer in Donald J Trump, I find that some anti Trumpers I know are also questioning it, though on the different grounds that their woman lost.

This mirrors a collapse of trust in traditional democratic institutions such as the media, politicians as shown in the 2017 Edelman report cited in the Irish Times a few days ago. It found trust in the Irish media had fallen to levels last seen 17 years ago. This contrasts with 2016, where trust increased from 31% to 38%.

This has been contemperaneous with the rise of populist parties of Right and Left e.g. in Greece: Golden Dawn (Right) and Syriza (Hard Left), Germany: AFD (Right), France: Fronte Nationale (Right), Italy: Five Star Movement (populist neither Left-Right).

We also see the Left increasingly taking to the streets to protest election results they don't accept, which is another sign of declining support for democracy. Trump is the latest example, but Bush was also tormented by protesters in every country he visited. Like Trump, the Left saw him as an ideological-enemy. But its a stretch to compare either to the Nazis . Despite this, the Left are sometimes resorting to the tactics of the Communist street fighters who attacked Nazis in Weimar Germany. The Nazis may have deserved it but Trump is no Nazi. In contrast conservatives tend to support law and order and do not resort to street violence.

Another example are the anti-Brexit protests in the UK, in spite of the democratically expressed will of the British people to leave the EU. Some want a re-run - as in Ireland with the Nice and Lisbon Treaties - or for the govt to ignore the result as in France and the Netherlands with the EU Constitution rejection - despite the terrible damage that caused to the EU's democratic legitimacy in the eyes of its citizens in countries like the UK, France and the Netherlands.

As for my motives: the liberal global order has brought growing inequality, terrorism and the outsourcing of strategic industries like manufacturing to often despotic, anti western regimes in the Far East. The media often cross the line between objective reporting of facts and partisan propaganda as the US and Irish medias hounding of Trump demonstrates. Civil society - in the form of NGOs - are increasingly being coopted by corporations to pursue anti worker policies of mass immigration cloaked as "anti racism". The important safeguard of the right to protest is meeting the same fate as NGOs through paid protesters. Such organisations were involved in breaking up the Pegida meeting and preventing the National Party meeting. I want Law and Order, strict immigration control, economic protectionism in the EU, and limited curtailment of media freedom so they give both sides of the story.

I also want the Leader to forcibly secularise public funding of schools, but to maintain laws against incitement to hatred. He would resolve the housing crisis with executive orders, and make RTE 50:50 between Left-Right to get both sides of the story out. Paid protesters would be banned, and a foreign agents law would force NGOs in receipt of foreign donations to register as foreign agents.

In summary: I am proposing an Enlightened Despotism, that would give peoplethe chance to live under and raised up by Law and Order. They would agree to some fewer freedoms, but in return would have safety and security. My regime would not interfere in consenting adults personal lives, and would also regulate prostitution, which would become a state monopoly taxed to help pay for the health service, education etc. The press would still have the right to criticise the government - but would be forced to include equal space for the opposite point of view.

So are you losing faith in democracy? Would you prefer a dictatorship?
 
Last edited:

olli rehn

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
8,529
I am starting to lose faith in democracy. As a staunch believer in Donald J Trump, I find that some anti Trumpers I know are also questioning it, though on the different grounds that their woman lost.

This mirrors a collapse of trust in traditional democratic institutions such as the media, politicians as shown in the 2017 Edelman report cited in the Irish Times a few days ago. It found trust in the Irish media had fallen to levels last seen 17 years ago. This contrasts with 2016, where trust increased from 31% to 38%.

This has been contemperaneous with the rise of populist parties of Right and Left e.g. in Greece: Golden Dawn (Right) and Syriza (Hard Left), Germany: AFD (Right), France: Fronte Nationale (Right), Italy: Five Star Movement (populist neither Left-Right).

We also see the Left increasingly taking to the streets to protest election results they don't accept, which is another sign of declining support for democracy. Trump is the latest example, but Bush was also tormented by protesters in every country he visited. Like Trump, the Left saw him as an ideological-enemy. But its a stretch to compare either to the Nazis . Despite this, the Left are sometimes resorting to the tactics of the Communist street fighters who attacked Nazis in Weimar Germany. The Nazis may have deserved it but Trump is no Nazi. In contrast conservatives tend to support law and order and do not resort to street violence.

Another example are the anti-Brexit protests in the UK, in spite of the democratically expressed will of the British people to leave the EU. Some want a re-run - as in Ireland with the Nice and Lisbon Treaties - or for the govt to ignore the result as in France and the Netherlands with the EU Constitution rejection - despite the terrible damage that caused to the EU's democratic legitimacy in the eyes of its citizens in countries like the UK, France and the Netherlands.

As for my motives: the liberal global order has brought growing inequality, terrorism and the outsourcing of strategic industries like manufacturing to often despotic, anti western regimes in the Far East. The media often cross the line between objective reporting of facts and partisan propaganda as the US and Irish medias hounding of Trump demonstrates. Civil society - in the form of NGOs - are increasingly being coopted by corporations to pursue anti worker policies of mass immigration cloaked as "anti racism". The important safeguard of the right to protest is meeting the same fate as NGOs through paid protesters. Such organisations were involved in breaking up the Pegida meeting and preventing the National Party meeting. I want Law and Order, strict immigration control, economic protectionism in the EU, and limited curtailment of media freedom so they give both sides of the story.

I also want the Leader to forcibly secularise public funding of schools, but to maintain laws against incitement to hatred. He would resolve the housing crisis with executive orders, and make RTE 50:50 between Left-Right to get both sides of the story out. Paid protesters would be banned, and a foreign agents law would force NGOs in receipt of foreign donations to register as foreign agents.

So are you losing faith in democracy? Would you prefer a dictatorship?
You realize that you would be one of the first to be locked away ?




Will you wear this with pride ?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Ok Dame, you believe in Donald Trump, I believe in Thomas Jefferson: drawing from different sources in his writing

Men by their constitution are naturally divided into two parties. 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the higher classes.
2. Those who identify with the people... who we hold are created equal, possess full inalienable rights, etc.

Call the two factions 1.serviles/conservatives, and 2. liberals.

The mass of man has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favoured few, boosted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God.

Sometimes it is said man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to protect us.? Let history answer this question....
 

olli rehn

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
8,529
The dictator Napoleon kept the Revolutionary legalisation of homosexuality.
Napoleon is dead a long time.
Bannon and Pence are alive. And many of their friends as well.
 

SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
Really? I must admit you never really struck me as someone who had much faith in it to start with!
This is hilarious, it was only yesterday when I called that dribbling eejit out on another thread for multiple posts in a row showing zero comprehension of constitutional politics and the rule of law, and demanding instead rule by the latest crazy whim of an unstable toddler.

That headbin has never been a democrat, he's always been a wannabe-fascist tosser without any idea that in any good dictatorship worth the name, he'd be one of the first against the wall - on multiple grounds. He wouldn't live long enough to see the imaginary Muslim terrorists he lies awake at night in terror of getting properly Oppressed. But then it was ever thus, lots of people who were openly on the Nazi hit-list went and voted for them anyway. Some humans are just too stupid to live, maybe these periodic cycles of tyrannical megadeaths are just nature's way of cleansing the gene pool.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
Denis O'Brien's nephew has some comments on the topic......

Which naturally were nevere circulated in the DOBlin media.
 

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,490
... So are you losing faith in democracy?

Would you prefer a dictatorship?
Democracy, as I see it, depends on a 'Rule of Law', though that should not mean a 'Rule by Lawyers'. And there has to be some consensus of opinion rather than simply Rule by the Majority; and checks and balances are essential.

Otherwise Democracy degenerates into Lynch Law.

I'm utterly against Universal Suffrage.

But Dictatorship has no real checks or balances so I'm totally against it.
 

derryman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
10,843
This is hilarious, it was only yesterday when I called that dribbling eejit out on another thread for multiple posts in a row showing zero comprehension of constitutional politics and the rule of law, and demanding instead rule by the latest crazy whim of an unstable toddler.

That headbin has never been a democrat, he's always been a wannabe-fascist tosser without any idea that in any good dictatorship worth the name, he'd be one of the first against the wall - on multiple grounds. He wouldn't live long enough to see the imaginary Muslim terrorists he lies awake at night in terror of getting properly Oppressed. But then it was ever thus, lots of people who were openly on the Nazi hit-list went and voted for them anyway. Some humans are just too stupid to live, maybe these periodic cycles of tyrannical megadeaths are just nature's way of cleansing the gene pool.
I see you have been working on your debating skills.
 

wexfordman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
7,877
I am starting to lose faith in democracy. As a staunch believer in Donald J Trump, I find that some anti Trumpers I know are also questioning it, though on the different grounds that their woman lost.

This mirrors a collapse of trust in traditional democratic institutions such as the media, politicians as shown in the 2017 Edelman report cited in the Irish Times a few days ago. It found trust in the Irish media had fallen to levels last seen 17 years ago. This contrasts with 2016, where trust increased from 31% to 38%.

This has been contemperaneous with the rise of populist parties of Right and Left e.g. in Greece: Golden Dawn (Right) and Syriza (Hard Left), Germany: AFD (Right), France: Fronte Nationale (Right), Italy: Five Star Movement (populist neither Left-Right).

We also see the Left increasingly taking to the streets to protest election results they don't accept, which is another sign of declining support for democracy. Trump is the latest example, but Bush was also tormented by protesters in every country he visited. Like Trump, the Left saw him as an ideological-enemy. But its a stretch to compare either to the Nazis . Despite this, the Left are sometimes resorting to the tactics of the Communist street fighters who attacked Nazis in Weimar Germany. The Nazis may have deserved it but Trump is no Nazi. In contrast conservatives tend to support law and order and do not resort to street violence.

Another example are the anti-Brexit protests in the UK, in spite of the democratically expressed will of the British people to leave the EU. Some want a re-run - as in Ireland with the Nice and Lisbon Treaties - or for the govt to ignore the result as in France and the Netherlands with the EU Constitution rejection - despite the terrible damage that caused to the EU's democratic legitimacy in the eyes of its citizens in countries like the UK, France and the Netherlands.

As for my motives: the liberal global order has brought growing inequality, terrorism and the outsourcing of strategic industries like manufacturing to often despotic, anti western regimes in the Far East. The media often cross the line between objective reporting of facts and partisan propaganda as the US and Irish medias hounding of Trump demonstrates. Civil society - in the form of NGOs - are increasingly being coopted by corporations to pursue anti worker policies of mass immigration cloaked as "anti racism". The important safeguard of the right to protest is meeting the same fate as NGOs through paid protesters. Such organisations were involved in breaking up the Pegida meeting and preventing the National Party meeting. I want Law and Order, strict immigration control, economic protectionism in the EU, and limited curtailment of media freedom so they give both sides of the story.

I also want the Leader to forcibly secularise public funding of schools, but to maintain laws against incitement to hatred. He would resolve the housing crisis with executive orders, and make RTE 50:50 between Left-Right to get both sides of the story out. Paid protesters would be banned, and a foreign agents law would force NGOs in receipt of foreign donations to register as foreign agents.

In summary: I am proposing an Enlightened Despotism, that would give peoplethe chance to live under and raised up by Law and Order. They would agree to some fewer freedoms, but in return would have safety and security. My regime would not interfere in consenting adults personal lives, and would also regulate prostitution, which would become a state monopoly taxed to help pay for the health service, education etc. The press would still have the right to criticise the government - but would be forced to include equal space for the opposite point of view.

So are you losing faith in democracy? Would you prefer a dictatorship?
My god your one pathetic attention seeker.
 

Hans Von Horn

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
1,672
I am starting to lose faith in democracy. As a staunch believer in Donald J Trump, I find that some anti Trumpers I know are also questioning it, though on the different grounds that their woman lost.

This mirrors a collapse of trust in traditional democratic institutions such as the media, politicians as shown in the 2017 Edelman report cited in the Irish Times a few days ago. It found trust in the Irish media had fallen to levels last seen 17 years ago. This contrasts with 2016, where trust increased from 31% to 38%.

This has been contemperaneous with the rise of populist parties of Right and Left e.g. in Greece: Golden Dawn (Right) and Syriza (Hard Left), Germany: AFD (Right), France: Fronte Nationale (Right), Italy: Five Star Movement (populist neither Left-Right).

We also see the Left increasingly taking to the streets to protest election results they don't accept, which is another sign of declining support for democracy. Trump is the latest example, but Bush was also tormented by protesters in every country he visited. Like Trump, the Left saw him as an ideological-enemy. But its a stretch to compare either to the Nazis . Despite this, the Left are sometimes resorting to the tactics of the Communist street fighters who attacked Nazis in Weimar Germany. The Nazis may have deserved it but Trump is no Nazi. In contrast conservatives tend to support law and order and do not resort to street violence.

Another example are the anti-Brexit protests in the UK, in spite of the democratically expressed will of the British people to leave the EU. Some want a re-run - as in Ireland with the Nice and Lisbon Treaties - or for the govt to ignore the result as in France and the Netherlands with the EU Constitution rejection - despite the terrible damage that caused to the EU's democratic legitimacy in the eyes of its citizens in countries like the UK, France and the Netherlands.

As for my motives: the liberal global order has brought growing inequality, terrorism and the outsourcing of strategic industries like manufacturing to often despotic, anti western regimes in the Far East. The media often cross the line between objective reporting of facts and partisan propaganda as the US and Irish medias hounding of Trump demonstrates. Civil society - in the form of NGOs - are increasingly being coopted by corporations to pursue anti worker policies of mass immigration cloaked as "anti racism". The important safeguard of the right to protest is meeting the same fate as NGOs through paid protesters. Such organisations were involved in breaking up the Pegida meeting and preventing the National Party meeting. I want Law and Order, strict immigration control, economic protectionism in the EU, and limited curtailment of media freedom so they give both sides of the story.

I also want the Leader to forcibly secularise public funding of schools, but to maintain laws against incitement to hatred. He would resolve the housing crisis with executive orders, and make RTE 50:50 between Left-Right to get both sides of the story out. Paid protesters would be banned, and a foreign agents law would force NGOs in receipt of foreign donations to register as foreign agents.

In summary: I am proposing an Enlightened Despotism, that would give peoplethe chance to live under and raised up by Law and Order. They would agree to some fewer freedoms, but in return would have safety and security. My regime would not interfere in consenting adults personal lives, and would also regulate prostitution, which would become a state monopoly taxed to help pay for the health service, education etc. The press would still have the right to criticise the government - but would be forced to include equal space for the opposite point of view.

So are you losing faith in democracy? Would you prefer a dictatorship?
Trump annoys both the Neoliberals and the Progressives alike. The Neoliberal view is "everything is mine" want no barrier to making money, while the progressives want to enforce Global Equality and Global Solidarity at any price. Both Neoliberals and Progressives / Socialists saw Globalism as a solution. Both Neoliberals and Progressives / Socialists despised Nationalism. Trump is showing people that his values are those of putting your Child's interests over those of a Child on the far side of the World, and that he will put his Countrymen's interests over those of people in other Countries.
This is why he is pissing off so many but it is the very reason his popularity will grow.
 
Last edited:

SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
I see you have been working on your debating skills.
There is no "debating" with some eejit who is now openly advocating fascist dictatorship FFS.

What the hell is wrong with you and lies.ukip? Yer both from Derry for Christ's sake, you should both know better :(
 

derryman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
10,843
There is no "debating" with some eejit who is now openly advocating fascist dictatorship FFS.

What the hell is wrong with you and lies.ukip? Yer both from Derry for Christ's sake, you should both know better :(
But I didn't say I agreed with him, I just thought that dropping the "moon licking window howling" thingy was a great step in the right direction for you.
 

Mick Mac

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
7,969
Sure, whats the worst that could happen.

Would we still be able to have a few pints and keep the sky box?

Mick
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
We have not lived in a democracy since the Treaty of Maastricht was voted through on a massive bribe of EU imperial money.
 

SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
But I didn't say I agreed with him, I just thought that dropping the "moon licking window howling" thingy was a great step in the right direction for you.
But Dame Enda is a moon-howling window-licking lunatic. He's blatantly not right in the head. And now after years of mealy-mouthed dissembling he's gone Full Fascist and wants to rip down all democratic structures and the rule of law and replace it with open dictatorship. There is no possible way to "play nice" with complete nutters, the only thing to do is tell them to sit down and STFU. There is no possible way to rationally convince someone as divorced from reality as that poltroon that their insane views are wrong. This is the kind of person that in olden times would send in weekly letters to the local newspaper....in red crayon...
 
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