Lough Foyle-time to settle long dispute?



Frosty1

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This lough has been used by fishermen for generations but since independence in 1922, has found itself claimed by two states. Both Ireland and the UK claim the lough and both country's Navys have patrolled it in recent times. Is it about time with the visit of QEII in the summer that this old dispute is put to bed?

Location: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/LoughFoyleLocation.png

As recently as 2005, when asked to list those areas of EU member states where border definition is in dispute, a British Government minister responding for the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs stated:
Lough Foyle " is politically disputed between Ireland and the UK".

One example of an article: Foyle 'loughed' in dispute - Local - Londonderry Sentinel

Finally an example of the Dáil claiming ownership for Ireland: Dil ireann - Volume 328 - 31 March, 1981 - Written Answers. - Lough Foyle Vessel Explosion.

What do you all think? Worth fighting for? or just another costly exercise in trying to claim ownership?
No the Lough is entirely in County Londonderry, this is the way it has always been even when Londonderry was in the same country as Roi, so really it belongs to Northern Ireland and Donegal can't really make a claim.
 

Frosty1

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Presumably it will be referred to a North-South body for agreement, with the British government indicating that it will accept whatever agreement is reached. That is the normal approach to solving disputes post the Belfast Agreement.

It could be jointly administered by the Northern Executive and the Irish Government.

On the British side, the procedure would be for the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to formally advise the Queen. As it is a territorial dispute, and therefore not within the powers of the Northern Executive, she would seek advice from the British Government, who would formally agree with the Executive stance.

Whatever agreement is reached with both states would be formally registered as a treaty between both states in the United Nations.
Why the hell would we do that? Seriously wants to give away land get real.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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I like the bit in Wiki that goes :

"Unlike other borders in the EU, the Irish border is not officially marked by either government."

It reminded me of the occasion back in the late 1980s when I was retracing a trek that I used to make most Sundays as a kid out from Creggan in Derry and over Sherrif's Mountain down to a wee shop known as The Black Hut just inside County Donegal where I would buy my grandfather's favourite tobacco, Walnut Plug (he being from Clonakilty in Cork and having eventually settled in Derry).

I encountered a British Army foot-patrol on a back road about 400 yards inside Donegal arguing over their maps. I politely put them right - seeing as there were no road signs or other distinguishing features to enlighten them - and they turned about and trudged back uphill to a point where I distinctly heard one squaddie say as they examined the roadway "I'm telling you, the road definitely changes here. That side's tarmac, the other's concrete."

:)
When I was a teenager I was sitting on Grainan of Aileach drinking some beer with friends and listening to music. We were waiting for the sun to come up, when a British Army patrol came walking into the fort asking us for directions. They had just come from Inch Level and were trying to find Nixons Corner. They had no idea where they were, but did get us to take a couple of group photo's of them with there camera in Grainan as the sun came up. It was funny as hell.

Years back my friends father encountered a group of British soldiers at Port Lough between Carriagan's and Newtowncunningham argueing amongst themselves about where they were. The arguement was serious and they were close to fighting with each other. He gave them a lift in the tractor trailor to Nixons corner checkpoint.

That sort of thing happened a lot.

I know that political types always claimed it was deliberate, but it was clear that most of the time, they were just plain lost.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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No the Lough is entirely in County Londonderry, this is the way it has always been even when Londonderry was in the same country as Roi, so really it belongs to Northern Ireland and Donegal can't really make a claim.
If I can remember correctly, the border ran along the shipping channel from Muff to out past Magilligan-Greencastle. Just over 2 thirds of Lough Foyle is in the North and the rest the South.

From Magheramason-Carrigans to Clady-Cloughfin it runs along more or less the middle of the river, except at the Big Isle at Porthall, which is in the South.

The water baliffs (loughs agency these days) when they caught anyone poaching would use the lines I just described as a guide as to wether the person they caught, went to a Northern or Southern court to be prosecuted.
 

Desperate Dan

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Well thats already agreed between the two states i.e. until a majority favours a united Ireland, the status quo will remain but Lough Foyle is currently claimed by both states.
Do the fish have a say in all this ?.
 

iago1709

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Just move the border slightly, say about, oh I don't know, seventy miles east, and the problem is solved...
 

ruserious

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What happens the Lough in the onset of a hard border. Surely the border will have to be settled finally.
 

ruserious

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With a No deal Brexit looking increasingly likely, Ireland should send a naval ship (if it can get a crew together..) to
Lough Foyle immediately for a sovereignty patrol.
 

ruserious

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Has there ever been any work done on resolving this issue in light of Brexit?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well there is a solution already in place and one of the aspects of the Anglo-Irish Agreement was that there should be regulatory bodies to oversee the welfare of the lake region on an 'All-Island' basis. You'll find that there are quangoes with a fair representation of both 'Mexicans' and 'People of the Tundra' :)
 

Old Mr Grouser

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With a No deal Brexit looking increasingly likely, Ireland should send a naval ship (if it can get a crew together..) to
Lough Foyle immediately for a sovereignty patrol.
But with Irish Reunification is only five or ten years away what' the point in starting such a dispute..

Have you thought through the possible implications?
 


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