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LRC report calls for reform of jury service system - is this wise?


Catalpast

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I am a bit surprised no one has started a thread on this already as it proposes to overturn one of the most fundamental rights of the Citizen

- the Right to be judged by ones Peers

- namely one's fellow Irish Citizens

It said allowing EU citizens and those who have been resident in Ireland for at least five years would make around 200,000 extra people available for jury duty.

I take it that no opinion poll let alone Referendum will take place before this is quietly brought in....?:?

However while personally object to being judged in my own Country by those who are not my fellow Citizens there are also some very important and worrying aspects to allowing people to be part of a Jury who are not fully aware of all the nuances and the vernacular of the people they are being asked to judge

This is something that in my heart the majority of Irish People would not want to see

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/commission-report-calls-for-reform-of-jury-service-1.1360220
 
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cobhguy

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I think its a great idea, why would some one who has lived here more than 5 years who is registered to vote, be unfit to sit on a jury.
 

Ulster-Lad

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I think its a great idea, why would some one who has lived here more than 5 years who is registered to vote, be unfit to sit on a jury.
Non citizens have very limited voting rights.

Bad decision IMO.
 
D

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With the increasing number of "new Irish" this is necessary if people are to be judged by a jury of their peers.
 

The OD

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I hope something does change, I'm not comfortable with all the invented ailments I bring to my Doctor to get out of it.

Influenza, catastrophic cerebral collapse, dissociative identity disorder, gout, leukemia. I think he suspects I'm not being honest.
 

SirTallaghtban

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The key to getting off jury duty is to inform the judge that you are prejudiced against all races.

Which, in my case, is the absolute truth!
 

Catalpast

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I think its a great idea, why would some one who has lived here more than 5 years who is registered to vote, be unfit to sit on a jury.
You have to be Citizen of Ireland or the UK to vote in General elections

Only Irish Citizens can vote in Referendums

Non Citizens otherwise can only vote in local elections
 

Catalpast

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One wonders what criteria will be used to decide the level of competency of Foreign Nationals in their ability to fully understand a Trial conducted here?

Also if this right is extended to FNs will the Government sign reciprocal Agreements with other States to ensure that this right is extended to our Citizens in their Countries?

Didn't think so either....:?
 

davidcameron

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It would be a bad idea to remove the exemption of teachers, doctors and nurses from jury service, given the present state of the public services.
 

gatsbygirl20

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It would be a bad idea to remove the exemption of teachers, doctors and nurses from jury service, given the present state of the public services.
Teachers are not exempt.

I have been called on many occasions.

University lecturers I think, are exempt
 

Victor Meldrew

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My sister (stay at home mum, 3 young kids) was called a few years back. She called the up:

Sis: I'm delighted to be called, can I bring my 3 kids, they are 4, 6 & 8?
Courts: er.... er.... er... Wait a sec............ It's OK, you are excused.....
 

cobhguy

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One wonders what criteria will be used to decide the level of competency of Foreign Nationals in their ability to fully understand a Trial conducted here?

Also if this right is extended to FNs will the Government sign reciprocal Agreements with other States to ensure that this right is extended to our Citizens in their Countries?

Didn't think so either....:?
As the defence can challenge up to 7 jurors without a reason and have them dismissed. Any one like yourself who would not like an not irish person on the jury at there trial can have them removed so theres no issue
 

Catalpast

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As the defence can challenge up to 7 jurors without a reason and have them dismissed. Any one like yourself who would not like an not irish person on the jury at there trial can have them removed so theres no issue
Er - are there not usually 12 fellow citizens on a Jury that sit in judgement on fellow Irish Citizens?

If so your argument does not add up

The wonder here though is that this profound and fundamental proposal is in effect being ignored by the Establishment Media

- whose focus of attention is on the personal spats between the Ego of the Minister of Justice

- and the Egos of certain distinguished Members of the Judiciary

Which while highly amusing does not have any direct impact of the ordinary citizen

I strongly suspect that the highlighting of one and the ignoring of the other is not by chance...:?
 

Catalpast

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Now, I could be wrong on this, but, in the UK, you do not need to be a British Citizen in order to be called up for the jury, so long as you are a legal resident (eg EU Citizen)

Considering that some of the people that do go before a Court are Not Irish Citizens, but are legal non Irish Nationals, and considering that we have a growing non Irish national population, it could not be said that a jury is a true reflection on society (the whole point of a jury is that it can come from every legal walk of life)

One issue we don't want is where a black non Irish person, normally residing in Ireland legally, comes before a jury, only to see that the jury is all White. Now, that does not suggest that such a jury is not capable of dealing with the matter correctly, but, there is always a risk. Look at it this way, a jury looking at a rape case , and it primarily consists of eg all men or all women is not a good idea

The lawyers are allowed to object to a person joining a jury. But they do so with little to work on, and it probably is not a good idea to use up your three objections in case you annoy the other members of the jury


The reality, there are unavoidable clauses that deal with people who can be exempt from jury . Others, you can't blame them for seeking to absent themselves due to work or holidays etc. We need more jurors

If these people are fit to vote on local elections , they are surely fit to sit on a jury. The lawyer can always object to their appointment when their number comes up at jury selection

I would prefer that it remained the way it is. But , like it or not, and regardless of how they got here, Irish life is more than just Irish citizens, and our Courts must recongnise that
Er so if I of my own accord move to Africa

- are accused of a Crime

- am brought before the Courts

- are sent forward for Trial by Jury

- and all the jurors are - wait for it - BLACK!:shock:

I can object as to where the White Folks are?:roll:
 
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Northsideman

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I got called a few years ago but was very busy at the time and wrote asking to be excused, got a letter back saying they understood but I would have to turn up. I sent a second letter again no go, I had to turn up. I then sent a letter asking if they could provide me with info on how the selection process worked and specifically asking if people in Dublin as opposed to a county such as Donegal were more likely to to called? I then received a letter telling me I was excused.

I had thought they would not call those from counties where there are no sitting jury courts hence he system is not fair, am I correct?
 

Catalpast

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I got called a few years ago but was very busy at the time and wrote asking to be excused, got a letter back saying they understood but I would have to turn up. I sent a second letter again no go, I had to turn up. I then sent a letter asking if they could provide me with info on how the selection process worked and specifically asking if people in Dublin as opposed to a county such as Donegal were more likely to to called? I then received a letter telling me I was excused.

I had thought they would not call those from counties where there are no sitting jury courts hence he system is not fair, am I correct?
You raise a very good point in passing there

If a non Irish person is before the Courts and no one is available in the part of the Country they are in

- then could they object that a representative Jury is not available?

I honestly think we will be giving Hostages to Fortune with this ill thought out proposal...

It should be Binned IMO
 

NewGoldDream

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One wonders what criteria will be used to decide the level of competency of Foreign Nationals in their ability to fully understand a Trial conducted here?

Also if this right is extended to FNs will the Government sign reciprocal Agreements with other States to ensure that this right is extended to our Citizens in their Countries?

Didn't think so either....:?
Huh?

What's the first line about?

What are the tests to ensure "competency" amongst jurors at present?
 

SirTallaghtban

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If I was a career criminal, Iwould join an anti racist organisation and chuck them a few quid. Get the migrants on the jury on your side right after the character references are given.
 

NewGoldDream

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If I was a career criminal, Iwould join an anti racist organisation and chuck them a few quid. Get the migrants on the jury on your side right after the character references are given.
I think you do not know how trials are run.

Character references are given in mitigation, once the jury's duty is done and it's in the hands of the Judge to decide on sentence.
 
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