M20: Motorway between Cork and Limerick - plans afoot!



Rebel CNC

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easygoing said:
See here: http://www.corkrdo.ie/n20_cork_limerick ... uction.php

The idea is welcome and, in my view, should begin as soon as humanly possible. However - would it not make sense to construct such a motorway from Mitchelstown to Limerick instead, using the new M8? Geographically, it would make more sense, as the distance appears shorter.
Does this mean the end of driving through New Twopot House? Which begs the question - where is the original Twopot House?
 

locke

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There is actually an Old Twopothouse between Mallow and Doneraile.

Not as odd as New Tipperary between Mallow and Donoughmore though.
 

Rebel CNC

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locke said:
There is actually an Old Twopothouse between Mallow and Doneraile.

Not as odd as New Tipperary between Mallow and Donoughmore though.

Indeed - strange places in that neck of the woods, there also being the wonderfully named Bweeng!
 

Podolski

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Nadd too! Actually I think the best placename in North Cork is Rascalstreet which is near Kiskeam.
 

easygoing

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Jokes aside, looking at this map, is it not by far the more sensible option to use Mitchelstown as the start point for Cork to Limerick? http://www.transport21.ie/Maps/Transpor ... _2015.html

It's only half the distance. Cork traffic wishing to head to Limerick would use the M8 to Mitchelstown, and then the new motorway would convey them to Limerick. Why bother upgrading the N20 to motorway at all?
 

Rebel CNC

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easygoing said:
Jokes aside, looking at this map, is it not by far the more sensible option to use Mitchelstown as the start point for Cork to Limerick? http://www.transport21.ie/Maps/Transpor ... _2015.html

It's only half the distance. Cork traffic wishing to head to Limerick would use the M8 to Mitchelstown, and then the new motorway would convey them to Limerick. Why bother upgrading the N20 to motorway at all?
They would need to do something about the tunnel roundabout if all Limerick traffic was going to head for the Fermoy, Mitchelstown Road.
 

locke

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It's a valid point. All round the country, the motorway network has copied the N road network when it didn't need to. In the Dublin area, I can't fathom the need for dual-carriageways going out on the N1, N2 and N3 when 50km out of Dublin, the three roads have diverged by 30km at most.

If I was playing decil's advocate, I'd say that Cork-Mallow needs to be a dual-carriageway anyway and that Limerick-Patrickswell is already completed, so the distances of motorway to be constructed are pretty much identical.
 

david

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Oil over $140 a barrel and rising.
 

stanley

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easygoing said:
Jokes aside, looking at this map, is it not by far the more sensible option to use Mitchelstown as the start point for Cork to Limerick? http://www.transport21.ie/Maps/Transpor ... _2015.html

It's only half the distance. Cork traffic wishing to head to Limerick would use the M8 to Mitchelstown, and then the new motorway would convey them to Limerick. Why bother upgrading the N20 to motorway at all?
How much bleedin land do you think the FF'rs and their mates can buy up at any given time, they are waiting to get the money back on Tara so just be patient, you will get screwed soon enough.
 

joel

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easygoing said:
david said:
Oil over $140 a barrel and rising.
Point? Even if cars run on water in the next 20 years, the infrastructure will still need to be in place.

Yeah - Anyway, I can see the pony and trap making a comeback.
 

easygoing

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joel said:
easygoing said:
david said:
Oil over $140 a barrel and rising.
Point? Even if cars run on water in the next 20 years, the infrastructure will still need to be in place.

Yeah - Anyway, I can see the pony and trap making a comeback.
Exactly. The car is not going to fall out of use. It's here to stay, and it's here to stay because it's liberating in a way that public transport can never hope to be. And public transport is no good to people living in small towns, villages and the countryside. It's also no good to someone if it doesn't take you to where you want to go - which, even if it was massively invested in, would still very often be the case.
 

Wolverine2

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easygoing said:
joel said:
easygoing said:
david said:
Oil over $140 a barrel and rising.
Point? Even if cars run on water in the next 20 years, the infrastructure will still need to be in place.

Yeah - Anyway, I can see the pony and trap making a comeback.
Exactly. The car is not going to fall out of use. It's here to stay, and it's here to stay because it's liberating in a way that public transport can never hope to be. And public transport is no good to people living in small towns, villages and the countryside. It's also no good to someone if it doesn't take you to where you want to go - which, even if it was massively invested in, would still very often be the case.
I'd say it'll fall back in use, if not out of it entirely. Car is no good without the fuel to run it, and the fuel crunch is coming.

It would be worth factoring oil depletion into any new major developments like this.
 

easygoing

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Wolverine2 said:
easygoing said:
joel said:
easygoing said:
david said:
Oil over $140 a barrel and rising.
Point? Even if cars run on water in the next 20 years, the infrastructure will still need to be in place.

Yeah - Anyway, I can see the pony and trap making a comeback.
Exactly. The car is not going to fall out of use. It's here to stay, and it's here to stay because it's liberating in a way that public transport can never hope to be. And public transport is no good to people living in small towns, villages and the countryside. It's also no good to someone if it doesn't take you to where you want to go - which, even if it was massively invested in, would still very often be the case.
I'd say it'll fall back in use, if not out of it entirely. Car is no good without the fuel to run it, and the fuel crunch is coming.

It would be worth factoring oil depletion into any new major developments like this.
No way. The principles of speed and convenience give the car its appeal. The matter of fuel is secondary to that; petrol and diesel can be relaced as fuel, and will ultimately be replaced. No. The car is here to stay, until, presumably, the greens invent a magic carpet or matter-energy transportation, or until they can make bicycles travel 100kph, or until they can guarantee a train station or bus stop along every single road in the country and, further to that, make sure that such busses and trains stop outside the mother in law's house in Ballybeg, Co. Donegal etc.
 

Wolverine2

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Sure they can be replaced - just not at anything near the prices that are there today, and only in limited amounts.

The car is here to stay, as long as you're happy to get out and push it along the road, Fred Flintstone style.

There is nothing - NOTHING - on the horizon that would allow us to keep using our cars to the extent we use them now. Biofuel cannot provide it, hydrogen fuel cells cannot provide it, solar cannot provide it, in short we are going to have to make some tough choices on our energy use in the near future. Biofuel can power a car, but if all Ireland's tillage lands were devoted solely to biofuel and not to food, we would be able to provide at most 10% of our current oil demands.

I'm afraid your mother in law in Ballybeg will have to get the old bicycle out. No government of any hue can guarantee oil supply in the future at today's levels. Just is not possible.
 

Rebel CNC

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Wolverine2 said:
...
There is nothing - NOTHING - on the horizon that would allow us to keep using our cars to the extent we use them now. ....
True but oil depletion is not on the immediate horizon yet either. At $140 a barrel or even at $100, there are a lot of oil reserves that are worth exploiting that were prohibitively expensive a couple of years ago.
 

easygoing

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Wolverine2 said:
Sure they can be replaced - just not at anything near the prices that are there today, and only in limited amounts.

The car is here to stay, as long as you're happy to get out and push it along the road, Fred Flintstone style.

There is nothing - NOTHING - on the horizon that would allow us to keep using our cars to the extent we use them now. Biofuel cannot provide it, hydrogen fuel cells cannot provide it, solar cannot provide it, in short we are going to have to make some tough choices on our energy use in the near future. Biofuel can power a car, but if all Ireland's tillage lands were devoted solely to biofuel and not to food, we would be able to provide at most 10% of our current oil demands.

I'm afraid your mother in law in Ballybeg will have to get the old bicycle out. No government of any hue can guarantee oil supply in the future at today's levels. Just is not possible.
I really think you're under-estimating man's capacity to innovate. We're not about to return to the age of the Flintstones and the Penny Farthing, don't worry.
 

locke

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What about hedging and when developing the stretch between Charleville and Patrickswell also set aside land at the side of the road that can be used to develop a rail link between the two towns and enabling much faster Cork-Limerick rail travel. I'm not even necessarily talking about building it, just planning ahead and reserving land so that it can be done if that's the way transport goes in future.
 


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