Man jailed for spending money in his account

Karloff

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This is an interesting case, a 19 year old has been given a two year sentence for spending money his employers say they accidentally entered into his account. He was convicted of theft.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/teenager-jailed-after-20-000-mistakenly-lodged-into-account-1.2933483

Surely a miscarriage of justice? It was their mistake (they claim it was a mistake anyway) he did not take money from their possession, they entrusted it into his possession. The Courts in Ireland still take a hard line on small time debts and money thefts, especially from the monied as they have historically.

This also has ramifications in other areas, do you really OWN what is in your account? Or is it not really yours - because VISA can also reverse a transaction ie you appeal to them to reverse a payment you made to someone because you argue you never received the goods - now i am sure it is in the terms and conditions of those who use VISA but still - people assume they own that money.

To me it has ramifications for the proposed cashless society where all monies would be held in such accounts - electronically. Those in favor argue the powers that be would never raid their accounts that money held there is just as much yours as money under the mattress - this does not appear to be the case.
 


ManUnited

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This is an interesting case, a 19 year old has been given a two year sentence for spending money his employers say they accidentally entered into his account. He was convicted of theft.

Teenager jailed after

Surely a miscarriage of justice? It was their mistake (they claim it was a mistake anyway) he did not take money from their possession, they entrusted it into his possession. The Courts in Ireland still take a hard line on small time debts and money thefts, especially from the monied as they have historically.

This also has ramifications in other areas, do you really OWN what is in your account? Or is it not really yours - because VISA can also reverse a transaction ie you appeal to them to reverse a payment you made to someone because you argue you never received the goods - now i am sure it is in the terms and conditions of those who use VISA but still - people assume they own that money.

To me it has ramifications for the proposed cashless society where all monies would be held in such accounts - electronically. Those in favor argue the powers that be would never raid their accounts that money held there is just as much yours as money under the mattress - this does not appear to be the case.
You don't own it. It is basically a loan to the bank who will repay it on demand. That is why they are free to lend it out.
 

sadcitizen

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2 years!

Same thing happened to me when I was 15 and I also spent it. I knew it was probably wrong and that I should've found out what was going on but I was only a kid and didn't understand the situation...if I'd known it could be construed as theft and you could be imprisoned though...!
 

gleeful

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The lad has a string of previous convictions, which explains the harsh sentence.
 

General Urko

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An insane sentence which will be Fúcked out on appeal!
It has to be taken in light of the real white collar criminals usually getting no sentence at all and indeed the architects of our economic downfall facing no consequences at all for their bollex acting which has led to countless suicides, working class people dying on hospital waiting lists waiting to be diagnosed let alone treated with serious illnesses, the homeless crisis and thousands of young people fleeing out of this shytehole as soon as their education is complete!
Indeed these gobshytes are quite likely to be under more or less 24 hour police protection rather than behind bars, which is where they would be in most Western Countries in a similar situation!
 

niall78

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An insane sentence which will be Fúcked out on appeal!
It has to be taken in light of the real white collar criminals usually getting no sentence at all and indeed the architects of our economic downfall facing no consequences at all for their bollex acting which has led to countless suicides, working class people dying on hospital waiting lists waiting to be diagnosed let alone treated with serious illnesses, the homeless crisis and thousands of young people fleeing out of this shytehole as soon as their education is complete!
Indeed these gobshytes are quite likely to be under more or less 24 hour police protection rather than behind bars, which is where they would be in most Western Countries in a similar situation!
Can you link to the massive list of bankers and regulators who were jailed in other Western Countries for causing the economic crash of 2007?

You tend to post a massive amount of nonsense on this site. Possibly to excuse yourself form your complete inability to build a decent life for yourself in the real world. It's always the fault of 'others' and never your own problems that are doing you down.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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The lad has a string of previous convictions, which explains the harsh sentence.
I'm an old man, and perhaps my mind is going.

But can someone explain to me, please, what was 'harsh' about that sentence?

He'd stolen €19,000.

That's a bad knock for the firm that had lost that money.

And consider a few other things.

- 1. This criminal, Smith, Had 17 previous convictions; theft, assault, making threats etc. Why the Hell hall hadn't he been forced out over to England a long before this?

_ 2. What sort sort of a bloody country has Ireland become that an experienced criminal like this one can steal over €19,000 and still feel confident enough to hang about Dublin - rather than using the money as an opportunity to establish himself in London or Manchester?

At one time malefactors were terrified of the Gardai. Why isn't that the case today?
 

niall78

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At one time malefactors were terrified of the Gardai. Why isn't that the case today?
When was this golden age? The 1950's and 60's gifted us many of the criminals that became the major drug operations or bank robbery outfits in the 80's. So maybe you are talking about before then.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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When was this golden age? The 1950's and 60's gifted us many of the criminals that became the major drug operations or bank robbery outfits in the 80's. So maybe you are talking about before then.
From the 60's crime became mixed with politics and 'Civil Rights'.

That's when things started to go wrong.

There were other things as well. For instance, suddenly everyone had to have cars, even if they were fuddled with drink half the time, and didn't have the money for Insurance. Sadly the politicians accepted that situation.

People do need to have respect for the law. A part of that is having a 'healthy respect'; and for the Criminal Classes it means being scared, very scared.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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in Ireland, money beats human rights every time.
 

Orbit v2

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Hard to believe, but do we need to start teaching this stuff in school? If you find or come upon something of value that isn't yours, you don't just become the new owner. It still belongs to someone else.

Muddying the water with disputed credit card transactions doesn't work, because even if you end up on the wrong side of a dispute like that, the police would never charge you with theft. The dispute would be civil, not criminal.

Two years would be a massive sentence for a first offence, and there have been many cases where people got off without a custodial sentence, but this chap is already in jail, and a career crim.
 

Erudite Caveman

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An insane sentence which will be Fúcked out on appeal!
That is what I thought initially, but turns out this guy was in Cloverhill for an assault at the time he was arrested for the €19k. Couple that with the fact that he made no attempt to return any money when the bank notified him.

Remember - he didn't rob from the bank here - he robbed from his employer. An employer that was good enough to give a dodgy chancer like him a job in the first place.
 

Orbit v2

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Remember - he didn't rob from the bank here - he robbed from his employer. An employer that was good enough to give a dodgy chancer like him a job in the first place.
That is the tragedy. Once bitten, twice shy. This gobsh!te has just screwed up the chances of other crims of turning their life around
 

Man or Mouse

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I'm an old man, and perhaps my mind is going.

But can someone explain to me, please, what was 'harsh' about that sentence?

He'd stolen €19,000.

That's a bad knock for the firm that had lost that money.

And consider a few other things.

- 1. This criminal, Smith, Had 17 previous convictions; theft, assault, making threats etc. Why the Hell hall hadn't he been forced out over to England a long before this?

_ 2. What sort sort of a bloody country has Ireland become that an experienced criminal like this one can steal over €19,000 and still feel confident enough to hang about Dublin - rather than using the money as an opportunity to establish himself in London or Manchester?

At one time malefactors were terrified of the Gardai. Why isn't that the case today?
There was a case locally where the person in question stole a similar amount by devious use of a bank card. In any event, she too had previous but was given a suspended sentence and is paying back some paltry sum out of her disability or dole allowance. So when held up against this one it does make it look a bit harsh.
 

greengoose2

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There was a case locally where the person in question stole a similar amount by devious use of a bank card. In any event, she too had previous but was given a suspended sentence and is paying back some paltry sum out of her disability or dole allowance. So when held up against this one it does make it look a bit harsh.
No, it makes the other one look too lenient!
 

Emily Davison

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Can you link to the massive list of bankers and regulators who were jailed in other Western Countries for causing the economic crash of 2007?

You tend to post a massive amount of nonsense on this site. Possibly to excuse yourself form your complete inability to build a decent life for yourself in the real world. It's always the fault of 'others' and never your own problems that are doing you down.
Actually agree with General Urko as I was surprised with the sentence and immediately though of the bankers and what they have done. Obviously you can't spend money that is not yours, even if it's in your account. That is theft.

But the bankers who deliberately set out to take tracker mortgages off people who were entitled to them and who forced small businesses to convert company loans into personal loans and overnight pulled overdraft facilities have a lot more to answer for than a man taking 19,000. Urko is also correct that the bankers and regulators asleep at the wheel have resulted in countless suicides, marriage breakups, years of pain, depression... will get off scot free.

Is a banker who denies a man his tracker, resulting in him losing his home not deserving of jail, instead of handing that man back a couple of grand, a corporate apology and twopence worth of compensation for his banks wrongdoing? Is denial of a tracker not a greater theft?
 

sadcitizen

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Remember - he didn't rob from the bank here - he robbed from his employer. An employer that was good enough to give a dodgy chancer like him a job in the first place.
He didn't rob from anyone. Money was put into his account and he didn't even know where it came from.

I remember my thought process at the time it happened to me as a kid which was basically...I want to fix it but I'm too nervous to in case I get in trouble...and banks have protections in place when unauthorised transactions occur against your account, so presumably these protections are in effect for the other party (whoever it is) in this instance...and it's common in society for law-abiding people to keep things that they stumble upon but aren't entitled to - e.g. people getting sent two things from Amazon, or I don't know how many phones and wallets me and friends have lost to taxi drivers...it's not nice but it's not thievery because to my mind, thievery was a purposeful act, not something that you bumble into.

If I'd known that you'd need to check the State's legislation to double-check what 'theft' is...or if I'd known what legislation even was...I would've acted differently.
 

mr_anderson

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An insane sentence which will be Fúcked out on appeal!
It has to be taken in light of the real white collar criminals usually getting no sentence at all and indeed the architects of our economic downfall facing no consequences at all for their bollex acting which has led to countless suicides, working class people dying on hospital waiting lists waiting to be diagnosed let alone treated with serious illnesses, the homeless crisis and thousands of young people fleeing out of this shytehole as soon as their education is complete!
Indeed these gobshytes are quite likely to be under more or less 24 hour police protection rather than behind bars, which is where they would be in most Western Countries in a similar situation!

Hate to burst that little bubble of yours, but Ireland is actually one of the few countries who did jail bankers.
Iceland was another.

Not as many as I would have liked mind you, but at least some were.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/07/why-not-imprison-bankers-google
 

mr_anderson

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He didn't rob from anyone. Money was put into his account and he didn't even know where it came from.

If I'd known that you'd need to check the State's legislation to double-check what 'theft' is...or if I'd known what legislation even was...I would've acted differently.
Wrong.
And proof you didn't even bother to read the article.

He knew precisely where the money came from.
And even to his junkie ass, it was an obvious decimalisation mistake.

I had €7,000 spontaneously appear in my account about 2 years ago.
Knew it wasn't mine to spend.
Called the bank, but it was about 6 months before the source of the mistake was identified.
It 'rested' in my account until that time.

He said Smith was in a very low place at the time. He had a drug debt of €1,000 and he “felt like all his prayers had been answered”.
“It was a gift from God as far as he was concerned,” Mr Smyth said.

Smith spent the cash within three weeks on drugs
, socialising with friends, gambling, a new bed and a PlayStation.
At least he's getting another new bed out of this.
 


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