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Mangan Report recommends taxing Child benefit as a Budgetary option!


IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,226
Mangan Report recommends taxing Child benefit as a Budgetary option!

Taxing Child Benefit is one of the options recommended by the Mangan report in relation to reforming the Child Benefit Regime. The Mangan report has described taxing Child Benefit as “most feasible options for change”.

Any move towards taxing Child Benefit would create anomalies, and leave many working families much worse off than welfare families.

There are many welfare type benefits that are not taxed which include Rent allowance. Many hard pressed taxpayers may well find themselves much worse off than Welfare families when the tax free rent allowance is reckoned.

Working families have to incur such costs as travelling to work and childcare costs that Welfare families do not have to bear. In addition Ireland is almost unique in that it does not provide a tax allowance for dependent children like many other Countries.

The cost burden seems to fall particularly harshly on working families. There was a substantial change in our society towards higher labour participation rates, where two parents work to meet their outgoings, which include travel to work expenses, substantial rent or mortgage repayments, and childcare costs.

Any regime which would move to taxing Children's allowance would need to provide tax relief on outgoings in order not to undermine the viability of work.

Working families need an incentive to make work pay while they rear the next generation of taxpayers!


400,000 families face tax on children's allowance - Independent.ie
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
Mangan Report recommends taxing Child benefit as a Budgetary option!

Taxing Child Benefit is one of the options recommended by the Mangan report in relation to reforming the Child Benefit Regime. The Mangan report has described taxing Child Benefit as “most feasible options for change”.

Any move towards taxing Child Benefit would create anomalies, and leave many working families much worse off than welfare families.

There are many welfare type benefits that are not taxed which include Rent allowance. Many hard pressed taxpayers may well find themselves much worse off than Welfare families when the tax free rent allowance is reckoned.

Working families have to incur such costs as travelling to work and childcare costs that Welfare families do not have to bear. In addition Ireland is almost unique in that it does not provide a tax allowance for dependent children like many other Countries.

The cost burden seems to fall particularly harshly on working families. There was a substantial change in our society towards higher labour participation rates, where two parents work to meet their outgoings, which include travel to work expenses, substantial rent or mortgage repayments, and childcare costs.

Any regime which would move to taxing Children's allowance would need to provide tax relief on outgoings in order not to undermine the viability of work.

Working families need an incentive to make work pay while they rear the next generation of taxpayers!


400,000 families face tax on children's allowance - Independent.ie
Far better to means test, but the problem is that the expense of means testing would erode the savings.

Second best option would be to tax child benefit for anyone paying the higher rate of tax while leaving it untaxed for those on the ordinary rate. Of course you'd have some problems with people who are close to the threshold who'd end up worse off, but that will always exist when any benefit has a cut off point, and could be addressed through tapering if needs be.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,599
Household earning less than 60k a year, keep Child benefit.
60-80k, 75% of child benefit.
80-100k, 50% of child benefit.
100-200k 25% of child benefit.
200k plus, none at all.

This would be fair.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,226
Far better to means test, but the problem is that the expense of means testing would erode the savings.

Second best option would be to tax child benefit for anyone paying the higher rate of tax while leaving it untaxed for those on the ordinary rate. Of course you'd have some problems with people who are close to the threshold who'd end up worse off, but that will always exist when any benefit has a cut off point, and could be addressed through tapering if needs be.
Why not merge the revenue and welfare departments into one department. That would make it easier to determine what everyone had
 

Thomaso12

Active member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
172
Household earning less than 60k a year, keep Child benefit.
60-80k, 75% of child benefit.
80-100k, 50% of child benefit.
100-200k 25% of child benefit.
200k plus, none at all.

This would be fair.
I think that a tier system could be good but it would more intresting to add in child care around it to also help people get back to work.

Heres my thought for just one child the rest would be doubled.

55k and under, 110 euro per child including free child care.
56k-85k, 75 euro per child also including free child care.
86-120k, 40 euro per child
120k+, none at all.

If they have more than 3 kids then this is what they would be entitled to.

55k and under, 330 euro for 3 kids or more including free child care.
56k-85k, 225 euro for 3 kids or more including free child care.
86-120k, 120 euro for 3 kids or more.
120k+, none at all.

It could cut costs down for giving high earners extra money, giving people on social welfare or low income jobs to be able to get a job more or will to work longer and detering people from having too many kids to look after.
 

Texal Tom

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
2,482
Twitter
Don't tweet
Another reason to stay at home and go around all day in the pyjamas
 

Moneygod

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
399
Household earning less than 60k a year, keep Child benefit.
60-80k, 75% of child benefit.
80-100k, 50% of child benefit.
100-200k 25% of child benefit.
200k plus, none at all.

This would be fair.
How in the name of all that is good could you believe that anyone on over 100k should be entitled to any kind of benefit?:-x
 

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,338
Household earning less than 60k a year, keep Child benefit.
60-80k, 75% of child benefit.
80-100k, 50% of child benefit.
100-200k 25% of child benefit.
200k plus, none at all.

This would be fair.
Eminently sensible.
 

hmmm

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
2,834
No point working in this country it seems, you will get punished.

CB should be taxed.
It should be paid as vouchers.
CB should be paid for 2 children max.
Parents who have convictions, or children with convictions, should have their CB removed.
 

groundhog day

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,182
Is the report available to read in full, rather than having to rely on spin from politicians and media?
 

bob3344

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
7,115
Best option is to stop paying benefit after two or three kids.

Taxation just makes it harder for productive members of society to have kids while the permanently unemployed carry on as usual.
 

artfoley56

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
9,598
no child benefit cash: just a tax break for having children
 

tigerben

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,621
So will it be the case now that reducing child benefit over a certain amount earned will be another " I couldn't work as it wouldnt pay --------------- whatever taxs and charges , higher rent and my children's allowance would be cut. Just have child benefit for two/three or four kids and that's it.
 

Howya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
I think all benefits should be taxed. I realise that it is a circular flow if taxing the dole but it would remove anomalies in the system and (assuming that there are any new jobs) help the transition back to work.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,898
News today says that taxing child benefit is regressive.

Cannot see the reasoning for that.
 

Tin Foil Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,900
Household earning less than 60k a year, keep Child benefit.
60-80k, 75% of child benefit.
80-100k, 50% of child benefit.
100-200k 25% of child benefit.
200k plus, none at all.

This would be fair.
Depends on what you think is 'fair'. Some people might think that tax credits would be a fairer way to go - i.e. a working person with dependents gets to keep more of their own money to raise those children. Opinions will differ.

One thing strikes me though. We have been taking about taxing child benefit for two years or more, and I have never heard a mention of one very obvious thing. Child benefit is not just social welfare. It's social engineering. People will plan their families around how much money the government takes, leaves or puts in or out their pockets. And it strikes me a a really, really bad idea to price the middle class out of parenting in order to pay the working class to have as many kids as they want.
 
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