Mary Harney...Are you looking???

Kevin Doyle

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So FF are the defenders of a Health system that has failed. When you're spending a quarter of all expenditure on a system and it still won't work you have an obligation to change the system. Insanity is repeating the same behaviour and expecting different results.
Nobody said that reform wasnt needed, but if you think applying free market ideology to health care will create effeciencies you're deluded. All one need do is look the US health system, the most privatised in the world, also the most expensive and with outcomes on case by case basis amongst the worst. No thanks.

As an average earner with a family I know where I would far prefer to be in the event of getting any illness that requires paliative care
 


Kevin Doyle

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Oh, I fully agree. The way she left the budget balloon without expecting any results has been appalling. But introducing for-profit psuedo competition, with the likes of the Beacon creaming off their preferred customers (self secleting) and leave the rest to rot in the mismanaged public system is not a solution.
Absolutely, Harney thought she would have more time but the games up. Its incredible that a Miinister with such a clear conflict of interest in her portfolio is even permitted to remain at her post. Only in Ireland is it tolerated.
 

zzzdr

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The private A&Es can compete with flexibility and service and efficiency. If there's solid money to be made investment will pour into the private A&Es.

But they need to be flexible (24 hours) and offer the range of services that their customers may want (e.g. patching you up after being hit by a bus).

After being hit by a bus, being in an understaffed and ill equiped private facility is probably incompatible with survival.

If you have a scratch or a broken finger, a private A&E is the place for you.
 

LeDroit

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Absolutely, Harney thought she would have more time but the games up. Its incredible that a Miinister with such a clear conflict of interest in her portfolio is even permitted to remain at her post. Only in Ireland is it tolerated.
I certainly am not advocating that. The private hospitals currently do elective treatments because that's the way our insurance system is set up. They can't do treatments that the insurance companies won't pay for.

I want a one tier system with everyone having the same insurance cover. This insurance would cover ALL treatments not just elective ones and would be paid for by the State for the lowest paid third, subsidised for the middle third and self-paid by the highest paid third. So everyone has the SAME cover, can go to ANY hospital and will receive ALL treatments.

I believe the State can run hospitals but so can the private sector. But they must offer all services. Hospitals would only be paid if patients use their service so it empowers the patient. This will lead to change and improvement. Quality and Safety would be assessed by the State inspectorate, HIQA.

It's the Dutch model, not the American one.
 

powderfinger

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Do you think the gombeens in FF would have stood for that? She needed to do it gradually, allowing the privateers their scams like the NTPF to build up their for-profit facilities while closing down the public service by neglect, and appointing managers like Drumm who knew nothing about management.
That's an excellently centred summation of Harney's legacy,in her six year stint as Health minister on behalf of Fianna Fail,Fake Viking.
She's run down the public system in deference to the colocation agenda.
The unpleasant intrusion of an economic collapse has exposed the structural deficiencies inherent in that pursuit.
 
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LeDroit

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That's an excellently centred summation of Harney's six year legacy as Health minister on behalf of Fianna Fail,Fake Viking.She's run down the public system in deference to the colocation agenda.
The unpleasant intrusion of an economic collapse has exposed the structural deficiencies inherent in that pursuit.
Nonsense. The public health service has run itself down. If the system can't offer a proper service having been funded to the tune of €18 Billion a year then it's not Harney's fault.
 

OCicero

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After being hit by a bus, being in an understaffed and ill equiped private facility is probably incompatible with survival.

If you have a scratch or a broken finger, a private A&E is the place for you.
I just have to qualify that. A scratch or a broken finger between about *8AM and 10 at night* is the realm of a private A&E.
 

Kevin Doyle

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It's the Dutch model, not the American one.
The Dutch Model is heavily regulated, with huge subsidies from the Government, despite 60% private involvement, many of whom though are non profit entities.

Its illegal in Holland for insurance companies to offer differentiated policies. The current crop of Private Health providers here would run a mile from it as the means to generate profit are heavily curtailed in the Dutch model.
 

controller

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Nonsense. The public health service has run itself down. If the system can't offer a proper service having been funded to the tune of €18 Billion a year thenit's not Harney's fault.
But as Minister for Health,she is ultimately responsible for the public health service. If it is not being run properly, then it is her fault
 

RainyDay

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LOL!

I don't. The people will. It's called the market. Your ideology is blinding you.
Right, so I take it you've absolutely no idea how this might or could work on the ground? But you are quite happy to recommend the changes regardless. Is that you, Charlie McCreevy?

. The State supported hospitals are so heavily funded it means nobody can compete. All hospitals should be sold off.
I want what works, whether that's public, private or a mix.

That's a fairly big idealogical shift over the course of an hour. Perhaps you'd like to actually go and do some research and find out what does work, rather than blindly following the Thatcherite privatisation agenda every time.
 

whataday

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this is a non story......

decisions were made........

why no travel insurance?....

what about the beacon or hermitage a+e?........

the problem is clear.....people with insurance should not be in public a+e wards....no excuse.....
Get a grip.. Private hospitals are as bad.. It takes four weeks to see a neurologist or neurosurgeon at €260 for the privilege of kissing the overpaid "consultants" ring for five minutes. I have a friend who has "private" insurance and hasn't been able to walk for the last five weeks, no treatment.. The Irish "health system is a national disgrace.. Unfortunately I have no answers because the overpaid bloated professionals are holding everyone to ransom presuming they can also manage the service and provide it. And here is another fact I can absolutely swear to.. A consultant in a major london hospital earns £185k per year and works very hard for it a similar "professional will be paid in Ireland between €350-430k and dictate the terms..
 

Kevin Doyle

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The Irish "health system is a national disgrace.. Unfortunately I have no answers because the overpaid bloated professionals are holding everyone to ransom presuming they can also manage the service and provide it. And here is another fact I can absolutely swear to.. A consultant in a major london hospital earns £185k per year and works very hard for it a similar "professional will be paid in Ireland between €350-430k and dictate the terms..
Thats a big part of the problem alright, but as you can imagine they will be the toughest vested interest group to break, not the much lauded Unions.
 

FakeViking

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But as Minister for Health,she is ultimately responsible for the public health service. If it is not being run properly, then it is her fault
You have to remember that she never earned an honest day's pay in her life. No work experience outside the politics bubble. Married to a health industry lobbyist.
 

whataday

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Harney did try in the beginning but the spin doctors these consultants have (D.Duffy to name one) are using everything in their arsenal to cause blind fear of death and rage and laying at the politicos door.. No responsibility or compassion.. more like Gecko than physicians. It should be called the hypocritical oath.. . The best thing to do now is think long term and put restrictions and service agreements for every graduate out of the college of surgeons to serve their time in the national health service.
 

blackpitts

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There's no comparable competition as you say. The State supported hospitals are so heavily funded it means nobody can compete. All hospitals should be sold off. Then Vincents, the Mater and James' can compete with each other. Best service will attract the patients. No patient, no fee. That's competition. That'll improve the service.
That's all very well for elective surgery but in real emergencies - and let's remember what A&E stands for - you/ambulance service rush to the nearest hospital.
 

LeDroit

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That's all very well for elective surgery but in real emergencies - and let's remember what A&E stands for - you/ambulance service rush to the nearest hospital.
True. And in those genuine life and death situations any A/E will do. But the vast majority of people attending A/E are not life and death.
 

OCicero

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True. And in those genuine life and death situations any A/E will do.
That's not true. The A&E has to be open, unlike the private ones that only open during the day.
 

LeDroit

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That's not true. The A&E has to be open, unlike the private ones that only open during the day.
He was referring to competition between the main hospitals.
 


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