Mary Harney...Are you looking???

oggy

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Oct 28, 2009
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The private V public debate is a permanent pain in the backside. The only reason we have so much public facilities is because history proves the private sector failed so often. I certainly do not want so much public money spent on services but its a lot better than a massive inc rease in social upheaval
 


goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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My favourite p.ie question, that no one ever answers.

Provide any performance metric used in the health service that is worse today than in 2004.

Try:
Life expectancy
5 year cancer survival rates
Waiting times for acute treatment
Waiting times to been seen by a public consultant
Availability of prescription drugs
Coverage of screening programmes
Availability of treatment for thrombosis (stroke)


or any others that you can think of.

PM me to say that you've provided an answer.
 

theghost

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May 26, 2009
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But as Minister for Health,she is ultimately responsible for the public health service. If it is not being run properly, then it is her fault
I think she'd tell you it was a matter for HSE, and nothing to do with her
 

RainyDay

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Aug 14, 2003
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My favourite p.ie question, that no one ever answers.

Provide any performance metric used in the health service that is worse today than in 2004.

Try:
[....]


or any others that you can think of.
Here's a few more you might like to check out;

-Suicide and self-harm rates
- Cystic Fibrosis life expectancy
- Cost of GP visit
- Cost of hospital visit
- Obesity levels
- Dental services covered
- Psychiatric admissions
- Alcohol consumption
- Breast cancer mortality
 

OCicero

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Mar 24, 2010
Messages
752
My favourite p.ie question, that no one ever answers.

Provide any performance metric used in the health service that is worse today than in 2004.

Try:
Life expectancy
5 year cancer survival rates
Waiting times for acute treatment
Waiting times to been seen by a public consultant
Availability of prescription drugs
Coverage of screening programmes
Availability of treatment for thrombosis (stroke)


or any others that you can think of.

PM me to say that you've provided an answer.
A lot of these are metrics reflecting individual life choices though, aren't they? If people exercised more, had a better diet, drank in moderation, didn't smoke, they would have less need for acute treatment, less thrombosis, less cancer, greater life expectancy, need less drugs, have less dependence on screening programmes...
 

Podolski1.5

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May 31, 2009
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Seems like the message from many on this thread is "I'm alright Jack".
 

the_rebubblican

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Mar 24, 2010
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Get a grip.. Private hospitals are as bad.. It takes four weeks to see a neurologist or neurosurgeon at €260 for the privilege of kissing the overpaid "consultants" ring for five minutes. I have a friend who has "private" insurance and hasn't been able to walk for the last five weeks, no treatment.. The Irish "health system is a national disgrace.. Unfortunately I have no answers because the overpaid bloated professionals are holding everyone to ransom presuming they can also manage the service and provide it. And here is another fact I can absolutely swear to.. A consultant in a major london hospital earns £185k per year and works very hard for it a similar "professional will be paid in Ireland between €350-430k and dictate the terms..
Ireland has a wide spectrum of vested interests that have finally almost bankrupt the economy and will strangle any future growth. This crosses all careers, politics, medicine/health, law, civil service middle/top maangement, unions, semi state employees, in fact any activity that requires state licence. The HSE is a glorified enriched, inefficient slovenly honey trap for the taxpayer. Consultants are a prime example. Eventually all occupations will over time gravitate towards similar income levels across the EU as will the cost of living. These guys are simply taking the p!ss. It's time to for the next government to take it back. THis is a huge challenge, it's obvious that the penny hasn't dropped with the opposition.
 

slx

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Oct 13, 2008
Messages
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The state health service here is ridiculous. Its blatently obvious that the health care system here is completely mismanaged. Its not just the minister, the whole thing is dysfunctional.

It's just another reason why I would consider emigrating. I know a lot of people who are actually afraid to go to hospital, my grand mother for example, because of the incompetent treatment she has received.

When she goes to the Mater, they typically keep her waiting on a hard chair for maybe 8 hours even though she's got an appointment and is suffering from terminal cancer.

They even brought her in and kept her in a waiting room for about 12 hours then told her to go home because they'd lost her file!!

seriously, the health system here is completely screwed up
 

flavirostris

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Dec 21, 2007
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Nonsense. The public health service has run itself down. If the system can't offer a proper service having been funded to the tune of €18 Billion a year then it's not Harney's fault.
Of course not. She's only been Minister for Health for 6 years. How much more time would you like to give her
 

LeDroit

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Mar 11, 2010
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Of course not. She's only been Minister for Health for 6 years. How much more time would you like to give her
FF, FG and Labour have had a go in Health. It cannot be done because they keep banging their heads off the same wall. A public healthcare system cannot deliver unless the private sector is used. They will not 'fix' this system. This system is unfixable.
 

flavirostris

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FF, FG and Labour have had a go in Health. It cannot be done because they keep banging their heads off the same wall. A public healthcare system cannot deliver unless the private sector is used. They will not 'fix' this system. This system is unfixable.
Well her 2 FF predecessors did absolutely nothing. Martin commissioned endless reports and Cowen fled Health/Angola because he was worried about dirtying his political bib. I don't think that qualifies as "having a go".
Seriously, she's had 6 years and nothing to show except collosal waste, appalling standards and layers and layers of bureaucracy. Time to bring this dog out the back and put it out of it's misery
 

LeDroit

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Well her 2 FF predecessors did absolutely nothing. Martin commissioned endless reports and Cowen fled Health/Angola because he was worried about dirtying his political bib. I don't think that qualifies as "having a go".
Seriously, she's had 6 years and nothing to show except collosal waste, appalling standards and layers and layers of bureaucracy. Time to bring this dog out the back and put it out of it's misery
Every party has had a go. None have done it. A Socialist Healthcare Utopia is a fantasy.
 

flavirostris

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Every party has had a go. None have done it. A Socialist Healthcare Utopia is a fantasy.
You're basically saying that because successive FF and PD ministers have failed, it's unsolvable. The same ministers who enjoyed unprecedented budgets. Who says it has to be a socialist healthcare utopia? I'm sure most people would settle for a high quality public health service.
How come Ireland with it's population equivalent to greater Manchester cannot have a proper Health Service.
 

LeDroit

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You're basically saying that because successive FF and PD ministers have failed, it's unsolvable. The same ministers who enjoyed unprecedented budgets. Who says it has to be a socialist healthcare utopia? I'm sure most people would settle for a high quality public health service.
How come Ireland with it's population equivalent to greater Manchester cannot have a proper Health Service.
No, I'm saying ALL parties in Ireland have at one stage tried to fix the system as is. We are now at the stage where hopefully all parties will be honest with the public and tell them that a fully public system is impossible and a privatisation of some or all of the funding and/or delivery will be required. Of course we can have a world class health system and fairly quickly once the ideology is parked in favour of what works.
 

jane5

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Mar 12, 2009
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I worked in New Zealand, that has a fully functioning excellent exclusively public healthcare system. No private wards in the hospitals either. Emergency treatment for anyone present in the country, citizen or not, is completely free.

It can indeed be done, it just means no greed, no vested interests, no corruption, no taking money from the healthcare budget and shoving it into banks etc.
 

flavirostris

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No, I'm saying ALL parties in Ireland have at one stage tried to fix the system as is. We are now at the stage where hopefully all parties will be honest with the public and tell them that a fully public system is impossible and a privatisation of some or all of the funding and/or delivery will be required. Of course we can have a world class health system and fairly quickly once the ideology is parked in favour of what works.
Since '87 FG have held the Health Ministry for 2 and a half years ( Noonan ) and Labour for 11 months ( Howlin ). FF and the PDs have held the ministry for the other 19 and a half years..but that in your view constitutes failure by all the parties to create a world class health system....
 

controller

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.....It can indeed be done, it just means no greed, no vested interests, no corruption, no taking money from the healthcare budget and shoving it into banks etc.
But this is Ireland...The land of saints and scholars....all corrupt ones though
 

powderfinger

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No, I'm saying ALL parties in Ireland have at one stage tried to fix the system as is. We are now at the stage where hopefully all parties will be honest with the public and tell them that a fully public system is impossible and a privatisation of some or all of the funding and/or delivery will be required. Of course we can have a world class health system and fairly quickly once the ideology is parked in favour of what works.
Nonsense Le Droit.:)
Perhaps the opposition will be honest with the public and tell FF and Harney that a fully privatised system of taxpayer subsidised colocated hospitals is impossible.It's not sustainable on a standalone basis,in fact the market crash has exposed it's fragility.
I take it you are in favour with plans to alter the risk profile of the mired colo project,as raised in Spidermom's thread below.
http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/136224-hse-about-underwrite-co-location.html
 
Last edited:

LeDroit

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Nonsense Le Droit.:)
Perhaps the opposition will be honest with the public and tell FF and Harney that a fully privatised system of tax break subsidised colocated hospitals will not be tolerated.It's not sustainable on a standalone basis,in fact the market crash has exposed it's fragility.
I take it you are in favour with plans to alter the risk profile of the mired colo project,as raised in Spidermom's thread below.
http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/136224-hse-about-underwrite-co-location.html
I'm against co-location. Its a waste of resources and attacking the problem from the wrong end. It reinforces the fantasy of a public system. Just sell off the existing hospitals and let the private sector build more. Then fund insurance with the savings.
 


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