Mary Harney...Are you looking???

slx

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Oct 13, 2008
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883
The Irish Healthcare system is basically completely dysfunctional and needs to be rebuilt (organisationally) from the top down and the bottom up.

Vested interests need to be faced down and dealt with. No pussyfooting around. If the consultants or admin or whoever go on strike, big deal. Get new ones!

Private or public, the core of the system is just not working. It's costing too much money and providing bad results. That's the worst of both worlds.

On the childcare side of things, the HSE is even managing to get featured on Al Jazeera !
See thread :
http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/139033-where-rte-fail-investigate-hse-al-jazeera-do-their-job-them.html

How bad do things have to get before someone finally takes this on and sorts it out?
 


goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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4,940
I worked in New Zealand, that has a fully functioning excellent exclusively public healthcare system.
It isn't anything of the sort.

"The healthcare system of New Zealand has undergone significant changes throughout the past several decades. From an essentially fully public system in the early 20th century, reforms have introduced market and health insurance elements primarily in the last three decades, creating a mixed public-private system for delivering healthcare."

Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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4,940
Here's a few more you might like to check out;
Really feeble, but sure here goes....



-Suicide and self-harm rates
That has nothing to do with the Health Service

- Cystic Fibrosis life expectancy
Go on then, give us the evidence. By how much has this deteriorated in the last 6 years?

- Cost of GP visit
- Cost of hospital visit
These are not performance metrics.

- Obesity levels
Nothing to do with the Health Service

- Dental services covered
Not a performance metric. Entirely related to our current budgetary circumstances.

- Psychiatric admissions
- Alcohol consumption
Not performance metrics.

- Breast cancer mortality
Breast cancer mortality has improved

Breast cancer mortality rate down by 27% - The Irish Times - Fri, Aug 13, 2010
 

Levity

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Sep 23, 2010
Messages
10
The way things are looking, we might be lucky to have any A&E departments to go to.

Private A&E Departments in Ireland are designed to cope only with minor ailments. Its not a criticism, theyre brilliant (I have worked in one)
Being open 24/7 is fine but still they can only cope with certain problems.
Keep closing A&E's and we will have people dying on the way to the closest one, not on the trolleys.
Health is and always has been a bottomless pit, its really more about where the money is spent..more indians and not so many chiefs.
 

RainyDay

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Aug 14, 2003
Messages
2,548
Really feeble, but sure here goes....





That has nothing to do with the Health Service



Go on then, give us the evidence. By how much has this deteriorated in the last 6 years?



These are not performance metrics.



Nothing to do with the Health Service



Not a performance metric. Entirely related to our current budgetary circumstances.



Not performance metrics.



Breast cancer mortality has improved

Breast cancer mortality rate down by 27% - The Irish Times - Fri, Aug 13, 2010
Ah, I see it now. We only measure those things that give 'nice' answers that suit us. We ignore the rest of the stuff that really impacts people's daily lives.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
 

Sancho

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Feb 15, 2006
Messages
364
There's no comparable competition as you say. The State supported hospitals are so heavily funded it means nobody can compete. All hospitals should be sold off. Then Vincents, the Mater and James' can compete with each other. Best service will attract the patients. No patient, no fee. That's competition. That'll improve the service.
and if you can't afford the fee? For example, you are unemployed, you have a large mortgage, you have mouths to feed, your personal health insurance has had to along with other non-essentials because you can't afford the monthly outgoing?
 

LeDroit

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Mar 11, 2010
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1,768
and if you can't afford the fee? For example, you are unemployed, you have a large mortgage, you have mouths to feed, your personal health insurance has had to along with other non-essentials because you can't afford the monthly outgoing?
I have made it very clear that I see the govt fully funding insurance for the lowest paid third of people. I want a one tier system where everyone has the same insurance, some self-finsncing that others financed by the govt. The issue is the unaccountability of the service deliverers. They need to be made accountable to the patient instead of being in the service of the staff.
 

jane5

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Mar 12, 2009
Messages
138
It isn't anything of the sort.

"The healthcare system of New Zealand has undergone significant changes throughout the past several decades. From an essentially fully public system in the early 20th century, reforms have introduced market and health insurance elements primarily in the last three decades, creating a mixed public-private system for delivering healthcare."

Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It very much IS something of the sort. I worked there. In a major public hospital, in one of the major cities. For quite some time. I saw it myself. As opposed to Wikipedia.
There are no private wards at ALL in any of the public hospitals. There are one or two smallish private hospitals around, but they have no training posts, almost no on call staff, and have a very low case load of minor cases. Put simply, people don't use them. Maybe for some cosmetic surgery-there is a growing trend for cosmetic surgery "tourism" by Americans and such as the prices are so low.

The public service is excellent, staffed remarkably well, and has excellent outcomes. Everything is done in the most efficient way possible. We would do well to look to how they do it. Although, how they do it is they actually put the tax money into the health service, as in, services, equipment and frontline staff, as opposed to what we do with ours, piss it away on politicians who are paid more than Barack Obama, and insolvent banks, and crazy money for HR and middle management, and HSE quangoes.
 

LeDroit

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Mar 11, 2010
Messages
1,768
It very much IS something of the sort. I worked there. In a major public hospital, in one of the major cities. For quite some time. I saw it myself. As opposed to Wikipedia.
There are no private wards at ALL in any of the public hospitals. There are one or two smallish private hospitals around, but they have no training posts, almost no on call staff, and have a very low case load of minor cases. Put simply, people don't use them. Maybe for some cosmetic surgery-there is a growing trend for cosmetic surgery "tourism" by Americans and such as the prices are so low.

The public service is excellent, staffed remarkably well, and has excellent outcomes. Everything is done in the most efficient way possible. We would do well to look to how they do it. Although, how they do it is they actually put the tax money into the health service, as in, services, equipment and frontline staff, as opposed to what we do with ours, piss it away on politicians who are paid more than Barack Obama, and insolvent banks, and crazy money for HR and middle management, and HSE quangoes.
Do the consultants in NZ earn 250-400k and the nurses 50-75k a year? In fact are any of the pay grades similar to Ireland where 80% of health spend is salaries?

I'm going to guess, no. When you spend 15Billion on a healthsystem for 4million people and its as shyte as it is, more money is most certainly NOT the answer.
 

hammer

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Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,180
If you had a poll as to who the best ever Minister of Health was Mary Harney would probably top the poll.

That is how pathetic this country is.

Healthcare is so far down the list of priorities. It should be near the top.

Who was better in the last 20 years? BIFFO ( ffs)? Michael Martin (ffs)...........
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,709
Really feeble, but sure here goes....





That has nothing to do with the Health Service



Go on then, give us the evidence. By how much has this deteriorated in the last 6 years?



These are not performance metrics.



Nothing to do with the Health Service



Not a performance metric. Entirely related to our current budgetary circumstances.



Not performance metrics.



Breast cancer mortality has improved

Breast cancer mortality rate down by 27% - The Irish Times - Fri, Aug 13, 2010
Sorry the mortality improvement was before the implimentation of the specialist breast services- more to do with better drugs than better health service.

The Irish health care service is crap because it is run by civil servants who believe in 100%+ bed occupancy.
And that despite having one of the lowest number of acute beds in the OECD they believe we have too many.:rolleyes:
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
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Do the consultants in NZ earn 250-400k and the nurses 50-75k a year? In fact are any of the pay grades similar to Ireland where 80% of health spend is salaries?

I'm going to guess, no. When you spend 15Billion on a healthsystem for 4million people and its as shyte as it is, more money is most certainly NOT the answer.
In Australia emergency consultants earn between 240k and 300k vs 176-190 k here.
Locums earn about 7k per week plus expenses.

Emergency Medicine (FACEM) locums in Adelaide. All expenses paid.
 

RainyDay

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Aug 14, 2003
Messages
2,548
I have made it very clear that I see the govt fully funding insurance for the lowest paid third of people. I want a one tier system where everyone has the same insurance, some self-finsncing that others financed by the govt. The issue is the unaccountability of the service deliverers. They need to be made accountable to the patient instead of being in the service of the staff.
But you have absolutely no idea how to make this theoretical accountability happen on the ground - right? How do you allow patients to make market decisions about choosing the best supplier, when they have pretty much no idea how to tell a good supplier from a bad supplier?
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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4,940
But you have absolutely no idea how to make this theoretical accountability happen on the ground - right? How do you allow patients to make market decisions about choosing the best supplier, when they have pretty much no idea how to tell a good supplier from a bad supplier?
The don't seem to have any problems when it comes to choosing a GP or a Dentist.
 

jimbo99

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Jul 2, 2009
Messages
574
Mary Harmey pinned her colours to the mast a few years ago when she declared that the breakthrough agreement she had concluded with the consultants would be the basis for solving all the woes of our decaying Health/Hospital network.
Now we know that equivalent consultants in the UK earn less than 50 % of the inflated salaries paid here. She should be thrown out at once and banished to the scrap heap for good. She has failed miserably when challenged by a well resourced interest group who hold the keys to the kingdom. They just put their hand in our pockets and helped themselves to our money with Mary Harmey's approval.
This is the price that she was prepared to pay for the consultant support for her plan to shut down all those local hospitals.
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,709
Mary Harmey pinned her colours to the mast a few years ago when she declared that the breakthrough agreement she had concluded with the consultants would be the basis for solving all the woes of our decaying Health/Hospital network.
Now we know that equivalent consultants in the UK earn less than 50 % of the inflated salaries paid here. She should be thrown out at once and banished to the scrap heap for good. She has failed miserably when challenged by a well resourced interest group who hold the keys to the kingdom. They just put their hand in our pockets and helped themselves to our money with Mary Harmey's approval.
This is the price that she was prepared to pay for the consultant support for her plan to shut down all those local hospitals.
Sorry in the NYT article the irish consultants earn less than their Uk equivalent.( the figures are adjusted for purchasing power parity)
The bit about consultant support for reconfiguration is nonsense.
 


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