Mass unmarked grave in Tuam for 800 babies (Second Thread)

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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I had the measles 3 times in the 40's. Regular measles twice and 3-day measles once. The doctor came out, diagnosed it and said to give me fluids and keep the room dark so as not to affect my eyes. It wasn't a big deal. Do we think the Tuam children got even that much attention when they were ill?
 


Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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I'm not sure there are records for deaths in Tuam but there were records of spikes in death rates in other homes which correspond with measle outbreaks. Up until the 1950's "consumption" was widespread in Ireland, I think that covered both TB and cancer, although most likely TB. We know that death rates in the homes were higher than in the general population at the time.
No proof of anything. No Links to anything. So far, proof doesn't exist.
 

stray creditor

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The county council took over the site and at some stage attempted a redevelopment which seems to have mucked the bones about.

All we seem to hear about from RTE and their msm friends are nuns, nuns, nuns, all church responsibility with little or no responsibility from:

1. the government
2. the county council
3. the local community
And nothing about trying to get access to Dr. Bodkin Costello's diaries.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
You're jumping the gun straight away by saying they were 'dumped in a sceptic tank', surely that has yet to be established.

You very much sound like you have an agenda before the facts in line with rte and the msm.
Surely you aren't one of those people trying to frantically recast some sewerage infrastructure as some kind of 'special tomb'?

Have you not seen the photographs of the structure, placed on the thread? If the nuns were carefully affording the bodies the burial their religious cult says should be carried out then why can't the nuns just say where the burial ground is?

And come up with a reasonable explanation for hundreds of infant bodies left in a piece of sewerage infrastructure?
 

RasherHash

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Surely you aren't one of those people trying to frantically recast some sewerage infrastructure as some kind of 'special tomb'?

Have you not seen the photographs of the structure, placed on the thread? If the nuns were carefully affording the bodies the burial their religious cult says should be carried out then why can't the nuns just say where the burial ground is?

And come up with a reasonable explanation for hundreds of infant bodies left in a piece of sewerage infrastructure?
The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Oh well that's alright then. As long as it was only an extension to a sewerage system that makes it all alright? There is a glaring criminal offence here in operating an unregistered burial ground and where there is no registration of death and burial.

That's good enough for the Gardai to be involved instead of being sent memos by a committee.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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What kind of head actually rationalises with itself in this way? As long as no one admits it was a sewerage system everything thing else is A-okay?

There is a blatantly clear case for prosecution of a number of religious orders under the law as it stands and as it has stood for many decades.

Why the **** are the Gardai and DPP not moving on this?
 

RasherHash

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Oh well that's alright then. As long as it was only an extension to a sewerage system that makes it all alright? There is a glaring criminal offence here in operating an unregistered burial ground and where there is no registration of death and burial.

That's good enough for the Gardai to be involved instead of being sent memos by a committee.

The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.
 

RasherHash

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What kind of head actually rationalises with itself in this way? As long as no one admits it was a sewerage system everything thing else is A-okay?

There is a blatantly clear case for prosecution of a number of religious orders under the law as it stands and as it has stood for many decades.

Why the **** are the Gardai and DPP not moving on this?
You seem to want evidence and rationality to be thrown out of the window and legal action to be taken solely against the nuns, but...

12. All the residents of the Tuam Home were the responsibility of the Galway and Mayo County Councils. It seems to the Commission that responsibility for the burials of deceased children rested with the local authorities and Galway County Council had a particular responsibility as the owner of the institution.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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You seem to want evidence and rationality to be thrown out of the window and legal action to be taken solely against the nuns, but...

12. All the residents of the Tuam Home were the responsibility of the Galway and Mayo County Councils. It seems to the Commission that responsibility for the burials of deceased children rested with the local authorities and Galway County Council had a particular responsibility as the owner of the institution.
Under your theory, you go into a hotel and a man rushes up and stabs you. You then proceed to sue the hotel owner and the man who stabbed you walks away free.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.
Would you chose to be buried in that septic tank, decommissioned or not? I assume decommissioned means pump it out. It doesn't mean make sure every inch is immaculately clean and sanitary... and where should we place the statues of the little cherubs?
 

StarryPlough01

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For those people who will find it difficult to upload the unwieldy 529 pp of Fifth Interim Report with appendices using your mobiles, iPads, etc.

My screenshot -

Page 328 of 529

kMVEdGc.png



 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Loo
For those people who will find it difficult to upload the unwieldy 529 pp of Fifth Interim Report with appendices using your mobiles, iPads, etc.

My screenshot -

Page 328 of 529

View attachment 17726


k very hard at that photo. Would you want your child buried down one of those holes?
 

RasherHash

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Under your theory, you go into a hotel and a man rushes up and stabs you. You then proceed to sue the hotel owner and the man who stabbed you walks away free.
Silly analogy.
 

RasherHash

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Would you chose to be buried in that septic tank, decommissioned or not? I assume decommissioned means pump it out. It doesn't mean make sure every inch is immaculately clean and sanitary... and where should we place the statues of the little cherubs?
Yet again your approach is to the over the top emotiveness that loses sight of the facts.

The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.

Other questions which arise are,
1. how aware were the nuns doing the burying of the position of underground structures?
2. Did they know what the former use of any underground structures were?
3. Did those who dug the graves know and/or report what they found when digging and did they know what the structures were used for previously?
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Yet again your approach is to the over the top emotiveness that loses sight of the facts.

The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.

Other questions which arise are,
1. how aware were the nuns doing the burying of the position of underground structures?
2. Did they know what the former use of any underground structures were?
3. Did those who dug the graves know and/or report what they found when digging and did they know what the structures were used for previously?
H, no graves were dug. The bodies were dropped into that "2nd sewage structure" that you refuse to call a septic tank even though it is a septic tank into which sewage once flowed. I would love to know how you differentiate between "in a sewage tank" from within a "decommissioned large sewage tank"? Is it the difference between "in" and "within"? Or are you trying to say the nuns didn't drop the children's bodies into a tank still full of sewage, but one that had been emptied of the sewage?
The nuns are the active on-the-spot participants here. Witness testimony must start with them. What did you do and why did you do it?
 

StarryPlough01

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Fianna Fáil Spokesperson for Children and Youth Affairs. Anne Rabbitte [Galway East constituency] said the estimated €13 million cost of excavating the Tuam site could not be justified :mad:



STARRY:


It's a false dichotomy to say it's one or the other
. ^ ^ ^


It's beyond socialistic politics. How we treat the dead tells whether or not we ourselves are actually human beings. Leaving the children in the sewer demeans us all utterly. There's no choice or bargain to be made here. It is an absolute
.





Bodger at 11:49 am April 23, 2019

spokesperson for Children and Youth Affairs Anne Rabbitte; yesterday’s Sunday Business Post


View attachment 17739



From the party that gave you the indemnity deal…

Journalist Michael Brennan, in yestersay’s Sunday Business Post reported that Fianna Fáil had called on the Minister for Children Katherine Zappone to stop her plans to excavate the site of the former Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, Co Galway.


Mr Brennan reported:


Fianna Fáil children’s spokeswoman Anne Rabbitte said the estimated €13 million cost of excavating the Tuam site could not be justified when the money could be spent helping the children of today.

“There has to be a dose of reality and realism in all of this. Children living in hubs feel like they are prisoners. We will go down in history as the politicians that failed the children of the 21st century,” she said.

…“It’ll never be finished in her lifetime because no cabinet will approve a carte blanche cheque for an excavation if we don’t know where it will end. It’s a wilful waste of public money that could be spent on the children of today,” she said.

Rabbitte questioned if Zappone wanted to dig up every ‘cillín’ in the country (cilliní are traditional burial grounds for children who were stillborn or died before being baptised). She said that a better solution would be to agree a way of reverently remembering the children through commemorative plaques or gardens of remembrance.
 
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