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Mass unmarked grave in Tuam for 800 babies (Second Thread)


RasherHash

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Under your theory, you go into a hotel and a man rushes up and stabs you. You then proceed to sue the hotel owner and the man who stabbed you walks away free.
Silly analogy.
 


RasherHash

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Would you chose to be buried in that septic tank, decommissioned or not? I assume decommissioned means pump it out. It doesn't mean make sure every inch is immaculately clean and sanitary... and where should we place the statues of the little cherubs?
Yet again your approach is to the over the top emotiveness that loses sight of the facts.

The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.

Other questions which arise are,
1. how aware were the nuns doing the burying of the position of underground structures?
2. Did they know what the former use of any underground structures were?
3. Did those who dug the graves know and/or report what they found when digging and did they know what the structures were used for previously?
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Yet again your approach is to the over the top emotiveness that loses sight of the facts.

The human remains found by the Commission are not in a sewage tank but in a second structure with 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank.

Other questions which arise are,
1. how aware were the nuns doing the burying of the position of underground structures?
2. Did they know what the former use of any underground structures were?
3. Did those who dug the graves know and/or report what they found when digging and did they know what the structures were used for previously?
H, no graves were dug. The bodies were dropped into that "2nd sewage structure" that you refuse to call a septic tank even though it is a septic tank into which sewage once flowed. I would love to know how you differentiate between "in a sewage tank" from within a "decommissioned large sewage tank"? Is it the difference between "in" and "within"? Or are you trying to say the nuns didn't drop the children's bodies into a tank still full of sewage, but one that had been emptied of the sewage?
The nuns are the active on-the-spot participants here. Witness testimony must start with them. What did you do and why did you do it?
 

StarryPlough01

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Fianna Fáil Spokesperson for Children and Youth Affairs. Anne Rabbitte [Galway East constituency] said the estimated €13 million cost of excavating the Tuam site could not be justified :mad:



STARRY:


It's a false dichotomy to say it's one or the other
. ^ ^ ^


It's beyond socialistic politics. How we treat the dead tells whether or not we ourselves are actually human beings. Leaving the children in the sewer demeans us all utterly. There's no choice or bargain to be made here. It is an absolute
.





Bodger at 11:49 am April 23, 2019

spokesperson for Children and Youth Affairs Anne Rabbitte; yesterday’s Sunday Business Post


View attachment 17739



From the party that gave you the indemnity deal…

Journalist Michael Brennan, in yestersay’s Sunday Business Post reported that Fianna Fáil had called on the Minister for Children Katherine Zappone to stop her plans to excavate the site of the former Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, Co Galway.


Mr Brennan reported:


Fianna Fáil children’s spokeswoman Anne Rabbitte said the estimated €13 million cost of excavating the Tuam site could not be justified when the money could be spent helping the children of today.

“There has to be a dose of reality and realism in all of this. Children living in hubs feel like they are prisoners. We will go down in history as the politicians that failed the children of the 21st century,” she said.

…“It’ll never be finished in her lifetime because no cabinet will approve a carte blanche cheque for an excavation if we don’t know where it will end. It’s a wilful waste of public money that could be spent on the children of today,” she said.

Rabbitte questioned if Zappone wanted to dig up every ‘cillín’ in the country (cilliní are traditional burial grounds for children who were stillborn or died before being baptised). She said that a better solution would be to agree a way of reverently remembering the children through commemorative plaques or gardens of remembrance.
 
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StarryPlough01

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Photos of protests involving Tuam Home Survivors Network




By Fintan Dunne - April 22, 2019

PR GURU TERRY PRONE'S OFFICES
AMONG THREE SITES TARGETED BY
TUAM BABIES PROTESTERS


Tuam babies protesters on Easter Monday targeted the Dublin 4, 'Communications Clinic' offices of PR guru Terry Prone. The Tuam Home Survivors Network says Ms. Prone is enriching herself by representing religious orders now found to have lied to a Commission of Investigation. ….


View attachment 17736



Earlier today the group held a protest action at the offices of the North Galway coroner, Dr Val Costello, in Headford, County Galway.

View attachment 17737



The group also staged a protest at the Mespil Road, Dublin offices of Katherine Zappone's Department of Children. They want her government to spur immediate investigations by Gardai and to initiate coroner's inquests into the Mother and Baby institutions. ....


View attachment 17738
 

StarryPlough01

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Fintan O’Toole: Enough shame about the past. What we need is guilt




Fintan O'Toole


…. The brutal truth is that babies were dumped after death, children were raped in industrial schools and women were enslaved in laundries because they were poor. And because we had and still have a society and culture in which poverty dehumanises you and leaves you as prey to contempt and indifference.


If shame was any use to us, we would not have 3,784 children homeless by the latest official count, or 220,000 children living in poverty. There are very concrete, immediate and affordable steps that can be taken in the next budget to begin a coherent dismantling of these intolerable conditions. The No Child 2020 campaign by The Irish Times sets them out, and it is hard to find anyone who does not agree with them. But they will happen only if we collectively demand this real, hard, urgent evidence of atonement.


No Child 2020
 

StarryPlough01

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Keith Finnegan with Deputy Anne Rabbitte and Ms Catherine Corless



Bodger
at 11:49 am April 23, 2019

spokesperson for Children and Youth Affairs Anne Rabbitte; yesterday’s Sunday Business Post


View attachment 17748



My rushed notes on podcast (first listening) ~~~


'On today’s Show, Keith spoke about the tragedy in Ballinasloe over the weekend; the Tuam Mother and Baby Report; Una Taffe and a book of condolences opening in City Hall today'


Podcast

0:09:40



Anne Rabbitte

Anne Rabbitte wants final report. She feels that can is being kicked down the road.

The legislation that will be needed in ' final quarter to ensure excavation work and jobs that could be done would need to be brought forward and it is not in our summer selection of new legislation.

Rabbitte wants costs and timeframe and to know when it's going to end. Four years on and still no [final] report.

'When report is done wants legislation running parallel to kick into action. '

"Zappone is talking about doing a dig at back end of this year in the site in Tuam. That can't happen at the moment because the legislation hasn't come before it." The cabinet decide themselves the programme for legislation, it's not the opposition TDs who decide on the programme.



Catherine Corless

"Coincidentally," Minister Zappone had just spoken to Ms Corless ('rang her out of the blue'). Corless asked the Minister about legislation and Zappone said she's has two specialists working on very complicated legislation. Zappone "gave indication" that excavation will be going forward this year. And hopefully we will get legislation through asap
.



Anne Rabbitte

Anne Rabbitte said "we need accountability where money is spent and a time frame."

Rabbitte thinks 'when legislation comes through, we will have to treat all mother and baby homes equally. It isn't just about Tuam.'




^^^ Listen to podcast. Rabbitte walks back from article in Sunday's Business Post.


Did Minister Katherine Zappone also personally contact other Tuam survivor groups yesterday to keep them in the loop?

Or did Minister Zappone only speak to Ms Catherine Corless prior to Ms Corless going on the Keith Finnegan Show? Minister Zappone promised to contact all the groups and keep them informed.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Like I've said before- introducing the middle eastern death cult into Ireland was the equivalent of introducing rotgut whisky to native American reservations.

Some in our state are so f*cked up with xtian morality that they can pick at the dumping of up to 800 bodies or more in disused sewerage infrastructure in the back garden of an institution in the hope of finding a technicality, which in no way excuses what was done by a bunch of nuns.

Can you imagine the furore from the faithful were 800 bodies, primarily infants, discovered behind a secular institution. You'd never hear the end of it.

But these f*cking morons lead with their beliefs and bend anything they see or hear 'round to that effort.
 

StarryPlough01

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Like I've said before- introducing the middle eastern death cult into Ireland was the equivalent of introducing rotgut whisky to native American reservations.

Some in our state are so f*cked up with xtian morality that they can pick at the dumping of up to 800 bodies or more in disused sewerage infrastructure in the back garden of an institution in the hope of finding a technicality, which in no way excuses what was done by a bunch of nuns.

Can you imagine the furore from the faithful were 800 bodies, primarily infants, discovered behind a secular institution. You'd never hear the end of it.

But these f*cking morons lead with their beliefs and bend anything they see or hear 'round to that effort.


Sharing some thoughts with you… It's also by way of a recap…


*I'm nauseated with politicians like opposition Fianna Fáil children spokesperson Anne Rabbitte and her counterpart Minister Katherine Zappone…


*And I'm sick and tired of
*word games,* for example, :mad:




Let's also recall the events around April 2018, when UCD-TCD science team disputed ‘pessimistic’ DNA-test findings of so called "expert" technical group:mad: Reportedly, the ETG findings were 20 years out of date :mad:


In October 2018, Lead Forensic Achaeologist Niamh McCullagh spoke on
RTE Today with Sean O'Rourke and tried to play the politician when talking about the [Starry: UNNECESSARY] *NEW* legislation. A pre-programmed message was being put out on RTE.


Continuing... RTE Today with Sean O'Rourke, Lead Archaeologist Ms McCullagh also tried to downplay public expectations that remains would ~ if ever ~ be able to be identified. :mad:


After listening to this ^^^ HOGWASH, I stated:


It's the scientific and social duty of Lead Forensic Archaeologist Ms Niamh McCullough to tell authorities what is required to make reliable identification of remains possible. She was trying to make identification of remains sound more uncertain than it is.​


Source: Broadcast 24.10.18
Today with Sean O'Rourke
Tuam Babies Exhumation



Putting things in perspective ~~


Cost to Taxpayer of Pope Francis' Two-Day Visit to Ireland


Putting things in perspective, Pope Francis' 32 hours visit last year cost taxpayers €18 million ~~ *Over half a million euros per hour* (€562,500.00 p/hour)



The Pope's reported flop two-day 32 hour visit to Ireland cost the taxpayer €18 million (costing taxpayer €562,500.00 per hour)




Nov 22nd 2018, 6:00 AM



THE ESTIMATED FINAL budget for what the Office of Public Works (OPW) spent on the visit of Pope Francis to Ireland is approximately €18 million.

The pontiff paid a two-day visit to Ireland coinciding with the World Meeting of Families at the end of August.

I'm disgusted with Anne Rabbitte's QUOTED comments to the political editor Michael Brennan of Business Post.


Keith Finnegan should now have Michael Brennan on his show because guest Anne Rabbitte implied Mr Brennan misrepresented her statements to him. On the Finnegan show Ms Rabbitte tried to distance herself from her own quoted comments in the Sunday Business Post article!!

I don't think political editor Mr Michael Brennan would misrepresent FF Anne Rabbitte in print.

In her interview with Keith Finnegan (GalwayBay FM), Deputy Rabbitte walked back from her quoted comments here:



sbp.jpg



On Castlepollard thread user Catalpast defamed a journalist for comments he didn't like (new mod Strawberry came in to save him). And now Anne Rabbitte implies that journalist Michael Brennan misrepresented her statements. On Keith Finnegan Show (Galway Bay FM) she walked back from her comments to Mr Brennan.


However, Ms Catherine Corless with her hotline number to Minister for Children Zappone saved her beloved leader Zappone from a rabid attack on her by opposition Fianna Fáil children spokesperson Anne Rabbitte about the new legislation. Ms Corless said Ms Zappone "coincidentally, had rung her out of the blue just before Keith Finnegan show."

Minister Katherine Zappone is now committed to full exhumation and DNA at Tuam. BUT… BUT… just digging up and reburying the children at Tuam site, no forensic examination. They will do a DNA match and that's it… they are not going to look for signs of FOUL PLAY.


WHAT IF THEY NOTICE EVIDENCE OF FOUL PLAY? WHAT HAPPENS THEN, DO THEY JUST RE-BURY THE EVIDENCE?


WE NEED FORENSIC EXPERTS WITH A TRAINED EYE TO RECOGNISE SIGNS OF "FOUL PLAY" TO CONDUCT THE EXHUMATION.



I DON'T WANT THE *NEW* LEGISLATION TO PASS.



Bear in mind, this is unnecessary NEW legislation to by-pass the coroner.



I was pleased that Tuam Home Survivors Network protested outside North Galway coroner Dr Val Costello's office
.



Fifth Interim Report

pp 72-73





8.58 The archaeologist thinks that it is possible that some of the chambers in the second structure (where the human remains were found) were designed to act as cesspools or tanks into which the waste would be deposited and were designed to allow liquid percolate from them into the surrounding soil area



8.59 The Commission consulted a chartered consulting engineer with considerable experience in sewerage installations. His view was that the likely purpose of the chambers was the collection and holding of sewage but did not consider that the extent of the structures visible in photographs produced to him indicated use as a septic tank.94

______

Footnote
94A septic tank operates by introducing the waste into the tank by pipe into a chamber where, solid material sinks to the bottom of the tank and forms a sludge as the waste is broken down. The fluid covers it over. Anaerobic activity then occurs where the solid material breaks down naturally while fluid that builds up is allowed to spill over into a second chamber. The same process occurs again allowing the smaller solid particlesto fall to the bottom, where they break down. The water is then allowed to filter out of the tank into a filtration area.



8.60 Whatever the precise design the structure was built to serve, the Commission does not consider that any of its features suggest that it was deliberately formed as a crypt or formal burial chamber. If that were the case, an entirely different type of structure would have been expected that would allow for easy human access. Access to the chambers is only possible though the narrow openings with relatively fragile pre-cast concrete lids permitting access. The openings were largely uniform in size and while large enough to permit a small adult to pass through with difficulty, were clearly not designed with human access in mind nor for access with a ladder. The depth of the chambers was 2.7 metres from the current ground surface to the top of sediment at the base. Entry by an adult would require considerable dexterity and exit would require even greater dexterity



8.61 Without a full excavation it is not possible to conclusively say what was the exact engineering purpose of the structures but the Commission considers that it is very likely that it was sewerage related. This view is corroborated by some of the scientific testing carried out at the request of the Commission and described below.


[^^^ ^^^ ] 8.58 The archaeologist thinks that it is possible that some of the chambers in the second structure (where the human remains were found) were designed to act as cesspools or tanks into which the waste would be deposited and were designed to allow liquid percolate from them into the surrounding soil area.

….

8.64 The limited excavations conducted by the Commission have not revealed the existence of a sewage delivery pipe/culvert; however, soil analysis illustrates that it is likely that the chambers were used for an unspecified duration as sewage tanks. If, after full excavation, no sewage inlet into the chambered structure is found, the likelihood is that the chambers were either never used for sanitary waste, or that waste was delivered into the chambers from the top.


^^^ Mind games ^^^




We will have to watch all of this very carefully. The male expert archeologist hired by Bon Secours order gave them a "pleasing" report about a burial vault at Tuam.
 
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StarryPlough01

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#821
The politicians haven't clearly explained why they need new legislation to get around the LAW as it currently stands. BELOW IS PROPAGANDA ON RTE, PUTTING OUT PRE-PROGRAMMED MESSAGE :

29 December 2018


#857
Why hasn't the lead archaeologist Niamh McCullagh (Expert Technical Group) EXPLAINED HER ERROR in trying to DOWNPLAY PUBLIC EXPECTATIONS that remains would _if ever_ be able to be identified?

Starry: It's the scientific and social duty of lead forensic archaeologis Ms Niamh McCullough to tell authorities what is required to make reliable identification of remains possible.

31 December 2018


#858
*LEAD ARCHAEOLOGIST NIAMH MCCULLAGH SLIPS UP BADLY SPEAKING TO RTE SEAN O'ROURKE ON 24.10.18 ~ 'TODAY WITH SEAN O'ROURKE'*


31 December 2018


#2012
Starry:
I think lead forensic archaeologist Niamh McCullagh slipped up about the juveniles. She seemed to me to be nervous during the interview with Sean O'Rourke. The university genomic scientists disputed McCullagh's Report (ETG) ~

31 December 2018
Mass unmarked grave in Tuam for 800 babies (Second Thread)


#863
*LIES, LIES AND MORE LIES FROM TAOISEACH LEO VARADKAR*


31 December 2018

Extract

"We anticipate there'll be excavations in Tuam in the latter half of 2019, because we have to pass legislation in the Oireachtas giving us, the Government, the power to do the excavations," the Taoiseach said. "Because, for lots of reasons, we don't have the power to do that. [THE CORONER ALREADY HAS THE POWER TO CONDUCT THE EXHUMATIONS]

"We'll have to pass that legislation in the new year, and we'd envisage carrying out the first excavations in the second half of 2019.

^^^ LEO, ABOVE IS UNTRUE. ^^^ THE CORONER ALREADY HAS THE POWER TO CARRY OUT THE EXHUMATIONS.

________________
 

Lumpy Talbot

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I don't think Leo or other members of the cabinet want the coroner involved either. Which is interesting in and of itself.

They do seem to be desperately keen on forging new pathways and precedence instead of just following the process that already exists.
 

SweenyTodd

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I don't think Leo or other members of the cabinet want the coroner involved either. Which is interesting in and of itself.

They do seem to be desperately keen on forging new pathways and precedence instead of just following the process that already exists.
I don't think Leo or other members of the cabinet want the coroner involved either. Which is interesting in and of itself.

They do seem to be desperately keen on forging new pathways and precedence instead of just following the process that already exists.
Can't help feeling that there is an irony about the rightful indigation of 800 babies being buried like this when so many of those most outraged are ardent supporters of abortion for any reason.

 

StarryPlough01

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I don't think Leo or other members of the cabinet want the coroner involved either. Which is interesting in and of itself.

They do seem to be desperately keen on forging new pathways and precedence instead of just following the process that already exists.

Lumpy,

I wrote back in May 2018: "Overwhelmingly, Zappone has heard stakeholders want full exhumation and forensic examination of evidence including identification of the remains, as much as possible, with up-to-date genomic technology."

"Politician Zappone's mission, as she understands it, is to try to walk back these expectation in order to minimise both the cost to government and exposure of accountable parties and institutions."

*Zappone still wants to bury the evidence and shortchange survivors' rights.



:mad: *It's fixed ~~ a pre-determined outcome to minimise both the cost to government and exposure of accountable parties and institutions.* :mad:



Read my post in full here ~
#2177

2 May 2018
 

StarryPlough01

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I am making an appeal for someone to come forward with a leaked document(s) proving this is ^^^ Minister Zappone's real agenda on mother and baby homes. Read my above post #2353. Personally, I would trust John Ryan ('Preposterous') at broadsheet.ie

PLEASE COME FORWARD.
 

StarryPlough01

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HEAR YE, HEAR YE… I appeal for someone to leak the drafts of the NEW legislation…


The government want *NEW* Legislation. This is to bypass the existing law in regard to coroners and inquests.

Activist solicitor Kevin Higgins has stated the existing law is the ONLY LEGAL MECHANISM which can place on public record the cause of death of each of those children.


*I appeal for someone to leak the drafts of the NEW legislation.*


I (Starry) trust 'Preposterous' John Ryan at broadsheet.ie




I can't believe the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary congregation have got away with these SHOCKING HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES


Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary have to be made accountable for their crimes, which were carried out with impunity



Fifth Interim Report




More than 900 children died in Bessborough or in hospital after being transferred from Bessborough. Despite very extensive inquiries and searches, the Commission has been able to establish the burial place of only 64 children. The Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary who owned and ran Bessborough do not knowwhere the other children are buried.​



THIS IS BRIDGET'S STORY


*Bridget was 17 when she became pregnant. She had been brought up by her loving grandmother as her own daughter

*Bridget took the boat to London to spare her family the shame

*But when Bridget attended confession the priest referred her to the Catholic - Crusade of Rescue - who sent her straight back to Ireland without telling her family (grandmother)

*Bridget's family was not informed that she was at Bessborough

*At Bessborough Mother and Baby Home, in Cork, Bridget was given an injection and developed a huge abcess where the needle had penetrated. Bridget overheard two nuns accusing each other of not sterilising the needle

*Bridget's baby William was eventually taken to St Finbarr's Hospital at 19 days old. Baby William was 6 weeks old when he died

*30 years later Bridget was able to access baby William's death certificate and discovered he had died of septicaemia

*Still physically ill, Bridget was coldly tossed out of Bessborough Mother and Baby Home and returned to UK, where Bridget attempted suicide three times


Beautiful Angel William Gerald Walsh 26-10-1960 – 02-12-1960 My heart burns with my love for you and my soul cries out in sorrow having lost you – Mam xxx”




Dónal O'Keeffe‏ Verified account @Donal_OKeeffe



“In 1994, a (nun) told the mother of this infant that her child was buried in the congregation burial ground in Bessborough. However, records held by St Finbarr’s Hospital at that time recorded the child’s place of burial as Cork District Cemetery, Carr’s Hill.”





Dónal O'Keeffe‏ Verified account @Donal_OKeeffe Apr 24


”For Bridget, the thought that baby William is not laid to rest where she believed, where she visited, and where she prayed, but is likely buried instead in a pauper’s grave on overgrown Famine ground, is one final heartbreak more than she can bear.”



April 24, 2019


By Donal O'Keeffe


"The Sisters of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary stand to make untold millions from the sale of the former mother and baby home at Bessborough. Over 800 babies are missing and they may be buried on those lands.

"I wrote here last month about Bridget, (not her real name,) the woman who told me five years ago what had happened to her in the Bessborough mother and baby home.

“I had a beautiful baby boy, born in Bessborough in 1960 (who) died at six weeks, (and I was) myself lucky to have survived with the same infection; was told a dirty needle. I hadn’t known where my son was buried until 15 year ago when I plucked up enough courage to confront the nuns at Bessborough.

“I now know.

“Although I was a so-called inmate in Bessborough at the time of his burial, I was not allowed to be at his burial. It breaks my heart not knowing if he was dressed in a gown, or even if he was laid in a coffin.

“To this day, 54 years later, (I am) still trying to come to terms with the horror of it all.

“May God forgive them.

Bridget. (2014)


STARRY: Bridget had a legal right to attend her son's burial.

After the traumatic loss of her baby boy, Bridget was turned out of Bessborough and sent back to the UK, still physically very unwell. Distraught Bridget tried to take her own life three times…



Read the full article to learn how Bridget was lied to by a nun about the final resting place of her son William. Bridget had a legal right to attend her son's burial.




Thank you Donal.
 

StarryPlough01

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We need to know what this New legislation is.
 

StarryPlough01

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Irish Examiner article is unworthy to be called JOURNALISM. I FIND IT ABSOLUTELY REPUGNANT ON THE PART OF WRITER MS VICTORIA WHITE.


Victoria White makes LIGHT of the role of Bon Secours religious congregation by saying they were UNPAID for their work.


'The truth of the Mother and Baby Homes lies buried with the bodies'

Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 12:00 AM
The truth of the Mother and Baby Homes lies buried with the bodies

By Victoria White



For a start, responsibility for the burial of these infants lay entirely with the State. Galway and Mayo County Councils paid the Sisters of the Bon Secours a capitation rate to look after individuals and their babies,* but the nuns were paid nothing for their work.* [Victoria White]

I feel absolute revulsion. ^^^ You have to be signed in to read this drivel, which is unworthy to be called journalism. ^^^



My reply to Ms Victoria White IN KIND is thus ~~


If the nuns wanted to abuse children, it's not enough to say that they were unpaid, as every sado-masochiist knows, you have to pay for that perverted pleasure. The nuns are in arrears. SHAME AND UTTER CONTEMPT.


*It was joint responsibility by Bon Secours and the Galway City Council. The Fifth Interim Report refers to the GCC as likely to have known about the burials when planning the Athenry Road Housing Scheme in 1969 ~~



14.The Commission is surprised by the lack of knowledge about the burials on the partof Galway County Council and the Sisters of Bon Secours. Galway County Council members and staff must have known something about the manner of burial when the Home was in operation. The Board of Health and its sub-committees sometimes held their meetings in the Home. Employees of Galway County Council must have known about the burials. County Council employees would have been in the grounds of the Home quite frequently as they carried out repairs to the building and possibly also maintained the grounds. It seems very likely that Galway County Council must have been aware of the existence of burials when they were planning the Athenry Road housing scheme in 1969. [p10]




IT WAS THE BON SECOURS WHO WERE CRUEL TO THE CHILDREN


:mad:It was the Bon Secours who were cruel to the children who threw food on the ground that the little mites ran for (Read Tuam Survivor Anne Kelly Silke's story below) ~ who neglected the children while gorging themselves and visiting inspectors and council officials on regular feasts at the home - who kept records which they possibly sent for safe keeping to Rome eventually ~ out of the jurisdiction ~ who enriched themselves while the vulnerable children were left hungry ~ who lived contrary to their faith ~ who treated children and their mothers as lesser beings ~ let's not forget the mothers who are also missing ~ women of full age who lost their lives ~ they were not provided with the dignity of a marked burial with appropriate ceremony as no record exists ~ it was the nuns who caused and continue to cause horrendous suffering and finally they were the ones who as recently as last January attempted to make the case that the structure was a crypt.



:mad:It was the Bon Secours who employed a PR consultant Terry Prone to construct a story. Ms Prone is married to former priest Tom Savage. In the various reports ~ Ryan Report, McAleese Report etc., it was the Religious who took vows of poverty, chastity and working for the poor that were most egregiously evil and went against moral teaching, common and Canon law. :mad:


*The mother superior at Tuam instructed and Biba Rabbitte And Julia Devaney carried out her orders. Only a few death certificates were signed by Sister Hortense from the early period.


:mad:If the structure was a crypt why didn’t they place their own sisters who were interred in consecrated grounds not once but twice in the supposed crypt? Because it wasn’t a bloody crypt?


*And why did they ignore the Catholic teaching and Canon law instruction with regard to the burial of one baptised into the Catholic faith?

*It was and always has been about money. The nuns have sinned against the mothers and children and must now atone for what they did in financial redress. The longer the Bon Secours continue to withhold the truth the more they are damned for eternity.


*Has Ms White read Tuam survivor Anne Kelly Silke’s earliest memories of the nuns treating the small children like animals?


#1045
27 January 2019


Anne Kelly Zilke's memories of Tuam Mother and Babies Home ~~


… of the babies in cots lined up outside the home in the “scorching” sunshine; the ubiquitous Bina Rabbitte - the woman whose name appears on almost every birth and death certificate for the Tuam home - preparing bottles; and of the nuns tearing lumps off large batch loaves to throw at the children, who would fight over it, like pigeons; and of hunger.

At the age of 9 Anne Kelly Silke was sent to a wealthy farming family who had 7 bedrooms in their house ~~


Anne slept in her own room with a broken window and potatoes spread all over the bedroom floor to sprout.



She milked 14 cows in the morning and 14 in the evening and was responsible for feeding the sows, ducks, hens and turkeys. Sometimes she was taken out of school to clean the house.

Psychopathic Foster Family's son sadistically brutalised young Anne Kelly Silke ~~


“The worst beating I ever got was the horse’s whip. His mother went to him over something I’d done. I think it was over a tin of fruit that I took, or over the apples that I took. I did open the tins of fruit and I’d eat them,” she says. She thinks she was 11 or 12 at the time. Her foster mother went for Anne, and when she retaliated, her son stepped in.

"He [son] stripped me half-naked, waist down, and put me across the chair - and the wallop. The blood was pouring down my legs. I couldn’t sit,” she says. My backside was skinned, that was the truth.

Has journalist Victoria White read the Fifth Interim Report? I know it's harrowing…


Anne Kelly Silke's Foster Family were paid ~~


The family who took her in would have received a monthly fee of £2 and 10 shillings until she was age 10, £3 a month up to the age of 16, plus an annual allowance of £9 to £11.


Did Ms Victoria White even speak to any survivor groups? A very partisan article from what I've read.


By way of contrast to the drivel written by Victoria White, here is a researched article by Maeve Sheehan in Sunday Independent ~



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CormacBourke Verified account

@cormacbourke

Editor, Sunday Independent

In the Sunday Independent #sindo don't miss this stunning piece of journalism by Maeve Sheehan #tuambabies

Starry:

It's GLOBALLY documented that the "Tuam Babies" (as they were called) were segregated at school from the other children. They were made to sit at the back of the class (Ms Catherine Corless sat in same class with "Tuam Babies").

They had to arrive at a later time, to stop them mingling with "legitimate" children.


Source


The girl’s long walk ends at the Mercy school, where tardiness might earn you a smarting whack on the hand. The children from the home are always late to school — by design, it seems, to keep them from mingling with “legitimate” students. Their oversize hobnail boots beat a frantic rhythm as they hustle to their likely slap at the schoolhouse door.

JESUS WEPT! YOU CAN'T HEAR THE LESSONS AT THE BACK OF THE CLASS OR SEE THE BLACKBOARD (WHITEBOARD NOWADAYS). GRRR!! ... IT GIVES NEW MEANING TO SECOND CLASS CITIZENS. AND THE CHILDREN WERE TREATED AS LESS THAN HUMAN.


It makes me sad that the Irish Examiner would stoop so low as to publish such unworthy journalism as produced from Ms Victoria White.


Irish Examiner Conall O'Fatharta was inspired to become a journalist by the late Mary Raftery's groundbreaking work, and deservedly Conall has been honoured with the Law Society of Ireland's Justice Media Award for excellence in legal journalism. Ms White should have conferred with Mr O'Fatharta who is a mine of information on Tuam. Her article insults the Tuam survivors. I would demand an apology.




"Victoria White is a Dublin-based writer in fact and fiction. She is also an environmental activist who wants to green the face of feminism"
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
What a strange angle to take. It wasn't gruel the nuns were living on and I never heard of a convent or order yet that didn't have it's wine-cellar.

Then again if Ms White has taken the angle that the nuns were a group of women and therefore have to be defended in their actions you can see how her search for saying something new has taken her in an odd direction. Nuns may not have had any money individually but they lived bloody well.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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The nuns played their part in the death of too many children and the few nuns left must testify as to what their part was. We must know what happened at these Homes and to understand the role of the nuns in the chain of events is critical. Once we understand what went on in the Home, we can move on to the other players in this awful saga of death. The remaining nuns need to testify what events occurred in the home and reflect on those sins and crimes and tell the world so it can not happen again. These crimes could never have taken place without the nun's actions at the start of the chain and their silence about the deaths and "burials" in a septic tank. Then perhaps we can move on to the part played by the County Council and others. To make up a "crime" against a woman for having sex outside of marriage and impose hell on earth on her innocent babies is the real crime. We cannot allow this to pass by with no account and no punishment.
 

StarryPlough01

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Great Lumpy and Mrs CC. This apparently biased Irish Examiner article has now been widely circulated. There is no "Comments" section to reply to this writer's apologetic excuses and spin for the sadistic Bon Secours. Victoria White should declare if she has a conflict of interest (a priest in the family, or great aunt who was a nun…).


Victoria White also stated 'the past is another country.' A bit of a green algae smell around that statement.


"The past is another country.​
"The dig was never going to come up with a simple answer as to why the remains of so many babies and young children lie in a structure seemingly designed for drainage.​
"It was never going to prove the tabloid theory that nasty nuns stashed the corpses of ‘illegitimate’ babies in a sewage tank because they were the fruits of ‘sin’.

^^^ THIS IS WHY WE NEED THE CORONER ^^^ The *New* proposed Legislation is to bypass the coroner, and *their* people who exhume the remains won't be looking for FOUL PLAY.


YOU CAN'T PASS A SPECIAL LAW TO OBSTRUCT JUSTICE


FORENSIC EXCAVATORS HAVE TO PRESERVE ANY EVIDENCE OF FOUL PLAY. THEY MUST NOT RE-BURY IT. IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE CORONER UNDER LOCK AND KEY, CHAIN OF CUSTODY, PREVENT CONTAMINATION OF EVIDENCE...


100 percent agree those nuns need to be compelled to answer for what happened at Tuam with regard to NUNS (UNDER INSTRUCTION FROM MOTHER SUPERIOR) discarding the bodies of young children in the 20 chambers which was built within the decommissioned large sewage tank, and the location of the missing mothers. This is also applicable to Bessborough and other mother and baby homes.
 

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