Mass unmarked grave in Tuam for 800 babies (Second Thread)



Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Exactly.

Weak cowardly people abandoned their daughters.

The majority didn't.
You asked about the mothers and their babies. I said some kept them because of love. I said nothing about the relationship between the girl and her parents. Nor the father of the baby and both sets of parents. Those sweet strong parents may have made the daughter and her child's lives hell on earth, and probably did.
Try this. Go against the church here on P.ie and see the wolves go after you.
 

omgsquared

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Personal responsibility.

All, women who got pregnant through consensual sex, , men who made women pregnant and left them ., parents who abandoned them , society who shunned them , the churches RCC, C.o I, Jews , Islam who shunned them ,
Of course now no one is responsible as women have choices,, they can have as many children as they want with as many partners as they want, even anonymous sperm donors and that animal called the state will pay. How well we have evolved
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Personal responsibility.

All, women who got pregnant through consensual sex, , men who made women pregnant and left them ., parents who abandoned them , society who shunned them , the churches RCC, C.o I, Jews , Islam who shunned them ,
Of course now no one is responsible as women have choices,, they can have as many children as they want with as many partners as they want, even anonymous sperm donors and that animal called the state will pay. How well we have evolved
What is your alternative? A free cardboard box for the pregnant woman to live in under the motorway or a bridge? And access to a dumpster for her dinner?
Not even the wealthy will always make intelligent choices. In fact, not even the intelligent will always make intelligent choices. I doubt you want to punish the innocent baby. So left with the check, yes, the State pays.
 

PBP voter

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omgsquared

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What is your alternative? A free cardboard box for the pregnant woman to live in under the motorway or a bridge? And access to a dumpster for her dinner?
Not even the wealthy will always make intelligent choices. In fact, not even the intelligent will always make intelligent choices. I doubt you want to punish the innocent baby. So left with the check, yes, the State pays.
My alternative is a combination of more compassion and more personal responsibility.
If a young woman / girl gets pregnant then there should be some degree of state support. If she does several times and expects the state to support then this becomes an issue of her personal responsibility. As regards the fathers they should be found and made to pay as well. People make choices and there are consequences . Understanding that and the the fact that sometimes you have to do things that you do not want to do or not do things that you wish to do is called growing up . Unfortunately ourwell balanced society is suffering from a huge entitlement chip on both shoulders
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Any woman who gets pregnant over and over again and depends on the State to help raise them has far more problems than "personal responsibility". I would consider she might have rather severe mental disturbance or drug or alcohol dependence and if so does require the help of the State.
 

StarryPlough01

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Aren't there other threads you can frequent where one can bash welfare recipients?

The social welfare act of 1973, where unmarried mothers received a weekly allowance of 8.50 pounds was not in place in the earlier years and women and girls had no other means of support. This Act helped end the stigma around illegitimacy and brought about the closure of mother and baby homes (along with modern conveniences - the advent of the washing machine).

These women worked without pay in the combine harvester system - the religious orders profited from the long hours the women and girls worked with few breaks, no holiday.. - they were cold and hungry …. The religious orders controlled their lives from cradle to the grave. It was a business model. Yes, the state looked away and were complicit (e.g., the state did not enforce its statutory obligations: health and safety regulations, etc). In the last decade, a minister (?) said in the Dail the fact that the State has a right to inspect certain workplaces, it is not obligated to do so. Stacks of info on Castlepollard..

McAleese report referenced the Social Welfare regulations of 1979, where women and girls performing forced [slave] labour should have been paid wages. There were also legal obligations under 1930s Forced Labour Convention that prohibited forced or compulsory labour. I know Mary Raftery highlighted the Factories Inspectorate… around the time she exposed the High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry mass grave. I haven't got time to look all this up for you. It will be over at Castlepollard thread. Do what I do, use key words to search for my posts - "prohibited under international law" "factories inspector"


omgsquared

Article about Paul Garlick QC ~

#1359


 

The OD

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Yawn.

Catholicism is dying in this country and I shall enjoy pissing all over its stinking corpse.

I really enjoy watching the grey walkers shuffling in their diminishing numbers to the local temple of gloom.
 
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Aren't there other threads you can frequent where one can bash welfare recipients?

The social welfare act of 1973, where unmarried mothers received a weekly allowance of 8.50 pounds was not in place in the earlier years and women and girls had no other means of support. This Act helped end the stigma around illegitimacy and brought about the closure of mother and baby homes (along with modern conveniences - the advent of the washing machine).

These women worked without pay in the combine harvester system - the religious orders profited from the long hours the women and girls worked with few breaks, no holiday.. - they were cold and hungry …. The religious orders controlled their lives from cradle to the grave. It was a business model. Yes, the state looked away and were complicit (e.g., the state did not enforce its statutory obligations: health and safety regulations, etc). In the last decade, a minister (?) said in the Dail the fact that the State has a right to inspect certain workplaces, it is not obligated to do so. Stacks of info on Castlepollard..

McAleese report referenced the Social Welfare regulations of 1979, where women and girls performing forced [slave] labour should have been paid wages. There were also legal obligations under 1930s Forced Labour Convention that prohibited forced or compulsory labour. I know Mary Raftery highlighted the Factories Inspectorate… around the time she exposed the High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry mass grave. I haven't got time to look all this up for you. It will be over at Castlepollard thread. Do what I do, use key words to search for my posts - "prohibited under international law" "factories inspector"


omgsquared

Article about Paul Garlick QC ~

#1359




This is an interesting article by Dr. Sean Lucey regarding County Homes. On 31st March, 1943, there were 583 "unmarried women" in County Homes compared to 553 in the Mother & Baby homes. There were also 1425 children in local authority institutions, primarily County Homes. The women carried out all the menial work in the homes including care of the elderly and infirm in the Homes. All of this was, of course, unpaid labour. Children were Boarded Out and in many cases were little more than slaves and treated appallingly. (Boarding Out Allowance ceased when the child was 15 and many girls were then sent to the Magdalene Laundries because there was no place else for them. Ostensibly, this was done to provide them with domestic training and many girls did go on to secure domestic service positions.). Little wonder, the State are reluctant to have any proper investigations on the Mother & Baby homes as the next investigations would be into the State's treatment of women and children in the County Homes. This would then have to be followed by investigations into the Mental Hospitals and the incarceration of thousands of people and appalling treatment. Some of the Mental Hospitals had large outside farms, certainly in Limerick, where the patients worked - again unpaid labour. We can all huff and puff and demand answers but we are only fooling ourselves. We will never get them.
 

Peter72

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Yawn.

Catholicism is dying in this country and I shall enjoy pissing all over its stinking corpse.

I really enjoy watching the grey walkers shuffling in their diminishing numbers to the local temple of gloom.
The hateful intolerance for people of Faith.

Disturbing.
 

StarryPlough01

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Yawn.

Catholicism is dying in this country and I shall enjoy pissing all over its stinking corpse.

I really enjoy watching the grey walkers shuffling in their diminishing numbers to the local temple of gloom.

People are looking for an alternative culture, we have to provide it for them.
 

StarryPlough01

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This is an interesting article by Dr. Sean Lucey regarding County Homes. On 31st March, 1943, there were 583 "unmarried women" in County Homes compared to 553 in the Mother & Baby homes. There were also 1425 children in local authority institutions, primarily County Homes. The women carried out all the menial work in the homes including care of the elderly and infirm in the Homes. All of this was, of course, unpaid labour. Children were Boarded Out and in many cases were little more than slaves and treated appallingly. (Boarding Out Allowance ceased when the child was 15 and many girls were then sent to the Magdalene Laundries because there was no place else for them. Ostensibly, this was done to provide them with domestic training and many girls did go on to secure domestic service positions.). Little wonder, the State are reluctant to have any proper investigations on the Mother & Baby homes as the next investigations would be into the State's treatment of women and children in the County Homes. This would then have to be followed by investigations into the Mental Hospitals and the incarceration of thousands of people and appalling treatment. Some of the Mental Hospitals had large outside farms, certainly in Limerick, where the patients worked - again unpaid labour. We can all huff and puff and demand answers but we are only fooling ourselves. We will never get them.
I got a post removed on Castlepollard about the mental / asylum institutions. I reposted it.

Excerpt

[Starry:] Basically, these women were warehoused and heavily medicated. They are now institutionalised. If they live in hostels, they would be walking in a heavily sedated state (to put it mildly). It's outrageous.

Yellow Rose,

I would like to do more around this subject. In fact it brought me to this site. I found a cry for help while I was googling, so participated in the Helping John thread. A lot of that thread's webpages are not available to read at end. So sad.

Mary Raftery was dying when she made the two-part documentary "Behind the Walls". It needed a follow up (sequel) about modern times. The start of the Tribunals was when we saw some change, but this is only for non-voluntary patients. Once you sign yourself in as voluntary, you might not get out so easily. Back then "they" might convince you to be voluntary (sounds good if you feel stigmatised or perhaps it can be a dodge to lengthen the patient's incarceration for the paper work). Back then I was reading test cases (some links were on Mental Health Commission's website at the time). The judiciary went with the doctors... Same old, same old... I recall lawyer Dara Robinson had an awful time with one of his clients (Sean Croke?).

I haven't caught up with what's happening now.
 

StarryPlough01

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Coincidentally, I was talking about this with user omgsquared a day or so ago…


'The truth about the Magdalene laundries was hiding in plain sight'

From the archive: The public was superficially informed about what was going on behind closed doors

about an hour ago

The truth about the Magdalene laundries was hiding in plain sight

Una Mullally


An article published in The Irish Times on ***Tuesday, October 1st, 1968*** ~~~

Sr Theresa told the newspaper about High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry:


….

“Some have no family and many have no family ties of any sort. A few come from very good homes but they have, perhaps, got into trouble and are sent here by their parents for safety. If they have a family, we try to sort things out and send them back; but as a rule they haven’t got one.”

The main building in the complex was called St Mary’s. While the rest of the article was relatively sunny, interviewing only the nuns working there and none of the young women, the starkness of life in the laundry was described,The girls in St Mary’s don’t pay anything for their keep but the nuns, apart from giving them pocket money and cigarettes, don’t pay for the girls’ work they do in the laundry. The laundry is run on a wholly commercial basis. A manager and several men are employed.​
The girls who do most work are those who have been there for a considerable length of time; these are unlikely to be rehabilitated sufficiently to leave the home.”​



STARRY:

The article refers to Mary Raftery's research about the mass grave found at High Park, Drumcondra, Magdalene Laundry.

When the nuns sold the High Park property to developers they were given a licence to exhume 133 Magdalene women remains, but 22 additional bodies were discovered in the mass grave.

I'll explain briefly. The original crime was the High Park Magdalene women were buried in a mass grave without death certs up to 1980s. There was a cover up of the cause of death of 22 individuals (including one woman buried minus her head). Foul play seemed to be involved. The exhumation was carried out without a coroner. The evidence was destroyed through incineration (not cremation, which is an accepted burial practice). Then there was a cover up of all the afore-mentioned by Church and State.

To be clear, they obstructed justice by destroying evidence and to compound this offence they covered up their obstruction.

There needs to be an investigation of the cover up of evidence. There is no permit to destroy criminal evidence. A Dublin City coroner did speak to the undertakers and determined everything was in order. Was the coroner told about the missing head? You need a death cert before you bury someone in the ground.

The whitewash February 2013 McAleese Report didn't pursue these anomalies either. McAleese got on a plane to Rome shortly after his interdepartmental Committee report was published.
 

LISTOWEL MAN

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It's a myth that families still don't kick out unmarried girls who get pregnant
i know a woman who had 4 daughters and 3 were pregnant before they were married

same woman looked down her nose at everybody else's children and to this day her daughters look down on everyone else's children
 


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