May declares war on 'educational snobbery'

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
54,464
May criticises "educational snobbery" and announces plans for 'builders universities'.

Many times on comments pages you read well to do boss-types arguing that Poles etc. are harder workers, when justifying not employing Irish workers in manual labour.

We also saw educational snobbery with the backbench rebellion in FG when it was proposed schools be prevented from implementing discrimination in favour of children of previous pupils.

Should Ireland also introduce universities for manual labour, and tackle discriminatory school quotas?

Daily Mail said:
..Theresa May plans to train a post-Brexit generation of manual workers
This will involve billions of pounds going towards training schemes, research and development and cutting-edge robot technology to improve the economy
The plans will form part of the Government's long-awaited industrial strategy ...
 


devoutcapitalist

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
16,437
Ireland certainly needs to have more apprenticeship courses and we have far too many people in 3rd level education.
 

asset test

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
14,593
Ireland certainly needs to have more apprenticeship courses and we have far too many people in 3rd level education.
I agree, not everyone is academic. But snob value rules. University is the goal for the majority, not apprenticeship sadly. But then again do they have much choice on the CAO? I don't think so.

A friend's son found it so difficult to get an apprenticeship here in the field he wanted that he gave up and fekked off to Australia. And is doing well now.
 

automaticforthepeople

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
4,671
Was that not what the polytechs were originally supposed to be in the 60's? However given that growth in the UK population is often in the age groups that are 20 plus and often want to work rather than study, how big is the actual demand for these builders unviersities?
 

President Bartlet

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
9,309
May criticises "educational snobbery" and announces plans for 'builders universities'.

Many times on comments pages you read well to do boss-types arguing that Poles etc. are harder workers, when justifying not employing Irish workers in manual labour.

We also saw educational snobbery with the backbench rebellion in FG when it was proposed schools be prevented from implementing discrimination in favour of children of previous pupils.

Should Ireland also introduce universities for manual labour, and tackle discriminatory school quotas?
The why does she want to bring back Grammar schools? Some would argue they are educational snobbery:confused:
 

derryman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
10,622
May criticises "educational snobbery" and announces plans for 'builders universities'.

Many times on comments pages you read well to do boss-types arguing that Poles etc. are harder workers, when justifying not employing Irish workers in manual labour.

We also saw educational snobbery with the backbench rebellion in FG when it was proposed schools be prevented from implementing discrimination in favour of children of previous pupils.

Should Ireland also introduce universities for manual labour, and tackle discriminatory school quotas?
I find it interesting that Germany nurtured it's technical schools. I wonder is that reflected in their industry and engineering skills?
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
So is the idea to pretend that apprenticeships are universities but otherwise continue as normal?
 

devoutcapitalist

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
16,437
I agree, not everyone is academic. But snob value rules. University is the goal for the majority, not apprenticeship sadly. But then again do they have much choice on the CAO? I don't think so.

A friend's son found it so difficult to get an apprenticeship here in the field he wanted that he gave up and fekked off to Australia. And is doing well now.
The Germans have apprenticeship schemes in so called white collar professions as well, I could only imagine the outrage from many parents in Ireland if their kids decided they wanted to do an apprenticeship straight after school instead of college.

There used to be an apprenticeship programme for aspiring barmen in pubs, I'm not sure It's still in existence.
 

asset test

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
14,593
Apprenticeships should have University status (sound like la May here lol).

But only if they can be included in the CAO and a degree is awarded aswell. Nursing is something that moved that way isn't it?

If apprenticeships are outside the mainstream 3rd level forget it.
 

derryman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
10,622
I have commented before that those best suited to trades are now being lured into very dubious degree courses in universities , that, in my opinion, are more about revenue raising for the university than about providing real jobs for the students. This has the effect that there is a very small pool of potential quality apprentices to pick from. This and the specialisation of large subcontract companies is rendering all round tradesmen a thing of the past.
 

Accidental sock

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
4,000
Not sure about the 'educational snobbery' angle, but there's definitely an argument to made for greater emphasis being placed on manual skills.

I have two "book lurnin'" degrees (Science & Law), but due in no small part to my father, I can handle brickwork, mechanics, carpentry and plumbing. (plastering and complex electrical work, even though I know the theory,.... experience has taught me to leave to the qualified)

Education is best when it's 'rounded'. Neither of my degrees helped me when my toilet stopped flushing.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
49,805
Not sure about the 'educational snobbery' angle, but there's definitely an argument to made for greater emphasis being placed on manual skills.

I have two "book lurnin'" degrees (Science & Law), but due in no small part to my father, I can handle brickwork, mechanics, carpentry and plumbing. (plastering and complex electrical work, even though I know the theory,.... experience has taught me to leave to the qualified)

Education is best when it's 'rounded'. Neither of my degrees helped me when my toilet stopped flushing.

Mine helped me to pay for the plumber
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
9,224
So is the idea to pretend that apprenticeships are universities but otherwise continue as normal?
Shouldn't really be if she's serious about it, and who knows what Treasa is serious about yet, though social justice seems to be on the agenda.

Germany has got ahead through the likes of 'component technology' courses which equip trainees to switch to new skills quickly when demand requires.

The specific trades thrown up by new technologies, (window wallers anyone?) will require a smart flexible workforce which is at present being provided by Eastern Europe, and leaving slums of prideless untrained particularly in the North.

It seems the only aspiration provided is for an 'easy' degree and the only possible outcome is a job in some annoying call centre up Norf where the hapless ex student must ring hundreds of cranky people on a Monday morning with news about their pensions or missold payment protection insurance.

If she can provide British youngsters with the, very marketable, manual skills to exceed that as an ambition, then she will have done a good thing.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
8,115
Not sure about the 'educational snobbery' angle, but there's definitely an argument to made for greater emphasis being placed on manual skills.

I have two "book lurnin'" degrees (Science & Law), but due in no small part to my father, I can handle brickwork, mechanics, carpentry and plumbing. (plastering and complex electrical work, even though I know the theory,.... experience has taught me to leave to the qualified)

Education is best when it's 'rounded'. Neither of my degrees helped me when my toilet stopped flushing.
Plastering is an art best left to those who know their business.
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
Shouldn't really be if she's serious about it, and who knows what Treasa is serious about yet, though social justice seems to be on the agenda.

Germany has got ahead through the likes of 'component technology' courses which equip trainees to switch to new skills quickly when demand requires.

The specific trades thrown up by new technologies, (window wallers anyone?) will require a smart flexible workforce which is at present being provided by Eastern Europe, and leaving slums of prideless untrained particularly in the North.

It seems the only aspiration provided is for an 'easy' degree and the only possible outcome is a job in some annoying call centre up Norf where the hapless ex student must ring hundreds of cranky people on a Monday morning with news about their pensions or missold payment protection insurance.

If she can provide British youngsters with the, very marketable, manual skills to exceed that as an ambition, then she will have done a good thing.
Germany has a lot of manufacturing jobs. The UK allowed its manufacturing base to decline in favour of supporting the City of London. Leaving the EU will kill whats left of UK manufacturing, and any demand for skilled manual workers.
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
9,224
Germany has a lot of manufacturing jobs. The UK allowed its manufacturing base to decline in favour of supporting the City of London. Leaving the EU will kill whats left of UK manufacturing, and any demand for skilled manual workers.
Manufacturing will be benefitting from the weak pound, however most apprenticeships of the types we're talking about will be in construction.

I know, I know, there aint goin to be any construction after Brexit, but a pool of trained, properly educated workers, beats the alternative in my book.

Interestingly enough it was the City of London's demand for short term profits which did for British manufacturing. British Leyland went to the wall with two years of orders on its books, oh and the Clyde shipyards?
 
Last edited:


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top