MEP Mick Wallace supports Venezuela's pariah government. Why?

Splodge

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Of all your points, which ones justify the use of violence and lawfare against the Catalan separatists?

What is the justification for refusing the Catalans a referendum on independence?

Are you also arguing for us to return to the UK? Should we hold a celebration of the Black and Tans?
I’d reckon he’d hold a celebration of the Nazis.
 


Patslatt1

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Of all your points, which ones justify the use of violence and lawfare against the Catalan separatists?

What is the justification for refusing the Catalans a referendum on independence?

Are you also arguing for us to return to the UK? Should we hold a celebration of the Black and Tans?
A referendum that isn't agreed by the national government is unconstitutional. The attempt to hold one justified the intervention of the Spanish police. Political stability is precious as is obvious from civil wars worldwide and should not be threatened in any peaceful country with no serious social or political problems.
 

Patslatt1

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Of all your points, which ones justify the use of violence and lawfare against the Catalan separatists?

What is the justification for refusing the Catalans a referendum on independence?

Are you also arguing for us to return to the UK? Should we hold a celebration of the Black and Tans?
Catalans need to be more patient.Regarding Ireland's 1916 rebellion, it occured after the prolonged political efforts of the Home Rule movement founded around 1860 temporarily reached a dead end thanks to extreme Protestant opposition in Northern Ireland. The Home Rule demands were reasonable within the UK constitution. Possibly two separate Home Rule governments north and south could have resolved Protestant paranoid fears of sectarian Catholic domination. I'm not aware of any serious discussion of this possibility
What led to the 1916 violence in my opinion was the Catholic reaction against the Ulster Volunteer militias which were not suppressed by the government. In response, Catholic nationalists founded the Irish Volunteers. A faction within this movement had the military training that facilitated the rebellion.
 

toughbutfair

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Maybe they have a policy , which he likes, regarding company owners ability to collect Money from their clients in the guise of VAT to pay for hospitals, schools etc but then not hand it over .
 

bang bang

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Catalans need to be more patient.Regarding Ireland's 1916 rebellion, it occured after the prolonged political efforts of the Home Rule movement founded around 1860 temporarily reached a dead end thanks to extreme Protestant opposition in Northern Ireland. The Home Rule demands were reasonable within the UK constitution. Possibly two separate Home Rule governments north and south could have resolved Protestant paranoid fears of sectarian Catholic domination. I'm not aware of any serious discussion of this possibility
What led to the 1916 violence in my opinion was the Catholic reaction against the Ulster Volunteer militias which were not suppressed by the government. In response, Catholic nationalists founded the Irish Volunteers. A faction within this movement had the military training that facilitated the rebellion.
I notice you sidestepped the question asked, why?
 

ruman

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Have a few Venezuelan friends, have heard them rip to shred silly Irish middle class twerps with their "socialist paradise" delusions.

We'd do anything for socialism except live in a country that has it !
 

toughbutfair

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Have a few Venezuelan friends, have heard them rip to shred silly Irish middle class twerps with their "socialist paradise" delusions.

We'd do anything for socialism except live in a country that has it !
Lefties here were condemning my Irish friend who went to Venezuela and came back with a young beautiful wife. They actually believe that he had a moral obligation to leave her in poverty.
 

IvoShandor

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Catalonia has been part of Spain since the Middle Ages. The disaffection of a sizable minority with Spain apparently stems from repression of Republicans under Franco's rule, repression also suffered by Republican regions of Spain such as Madrid. Another factor is the selfish attitude of many properous Catalans towards redistribution of incomes to low income regions of Spain.
Given the long history of unity, the Spanish government is entitled to be angry at the separatists. Catalans say that many separatists among them are highly intolerant of those who want to remain in Spain. Separatist politicians try to provoke the Spanish government at every opportunity. I don't have any sympathy for them.
Like the long history of unity between Ireland and Britain, dating from (depending how you judge it )1601, 1537 or 1172?

Regardless of whether he was corrupt or not, they locked him up so that he couldn't contest the eletion.
If he was corrupt, he was a criminal, and shouldn't be contesting an election in any case.

I think Lula was foolish to dip his hand in the till for a bribe of an apartment that was very modest relative to his power.That spoils his record of major achievements.
Damn right he was..and now his greed has set all his other accomplishments at naught.

Lula's socialist movement achieved a lot in terms of social housing as a private charitable activity. In power, the modest social welfare income support introduced by his government took millions of Brazilians out of extreme poverty..
Indeed. I'd agree that he's a far,far superior politician than the man who replaced him. But it doesn't change the fact that he messed up and gave his enemies the handle they required. Laws against corruption should be implacable and impartial, targeting the vile (like, say, Zuma) and the foolish alike. That's the way it has to be.

BTW - would you consider Jeanine Añez in Bolivia to be one of those "democratically elected" governments?
No. she's not elected. and she's not 'The government' But she is interim president. Neither was Gerald Ford. The Bolivian, like many Presidential systems including that of the USA provides for an order in which officials of the government can assume the powers and duties of the President if he leaves office under unusual circumstances. For example if both Trump and Pence are, eh. disabled ,then Nancy Pelosi assumes the office of President. I presume you wouldn't have any problem with that?
 
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Patslatt1

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Have a few Venezuelan friends, have heard them rip to shred silly Irish middle class twerps with their "socialist paradise" delusions.

We'd do anything for socialism except live in a country that has it !
Are out twerps numerous? Surely they must see the news about millions fleeing just to feed themselves despite an oil rich country.
 

Patslatt1

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Lefties here were condemning my Irish friend who went to Venezuela and came back with a young beautiful wife. They actually believe that he had a moral obligation to leave her in poverty.
They must be far left. Recommend the brilliant biography of Mao by Jung Chang and her Irish husband Jon Halliday.
 

Patslatt1

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Like the long history of unity between Ireland and Britain, dating from (depending how you judge it )1601, 1537 or 1172?



If he was corrupt, he was a criminal, and shouldn't be contesting an election in any case.



Damn right he was..and now his greed has set all his other accomplishments at naught.



Indeed. I'd agree that he's a far,far superior politician than the man who replaced him. But it doesn't change the fact that he messed up and gave his enemies the handle they required. Laws against corruption should be implacable and impartial, targeting the vile (like, say, Zuma) and the foolish alike. That's the way it has to be.



No. she's not elected. and she's not 'The government' But she is interim president. Neither was Gerald Ford. The Bolivian, like many Presidential systems including that of the USA provides for an order in which officials of the government can assume the powers and duties of the President if he leaves office under unusual circumstances. For example if both Trump and Pence are, eh. disabled ,then Nancy Pelosi assumes the office of President. I presume you wouldn't have any problem with that?
The political and military relationship between Ireland and England from the Norman conquest starting in 1167 was generally loose until the Act of Union ended the Irish parliament around 1800.Ireland's status was like a protectorate. Irish catholics became second class citizens after Henry VIII broke with Rome as did Irish rebels, but the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 restored entitlement to full civil rights.
 

Barroso

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The political and military relationship between Ireland and England from the Norman conquest starting in 1167 was generally loose until the Act of Union ended the Irish parliament around 1800. Ireland's status was like a protectorate. Irish catholics became second class citizens after Henry VIII broke with Rome as did Irish rebels, but the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 restored entitlement to full civil rights.
Pull the other one.
There were frequent wars, and Ireland was reconquered several times to ensure obedience.

As for being a protectorate - how do you account for the plantations? Being a protectorate does not include largescale colonisation.
 

IvoShandor

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The political and military relationship between Ireland and England from the Norman conquest starting in 1167 was generally loose until the Act of Union ended the Irish parliament around 1800.Ireland's status was like a protectorate. Irish catholics became second class citizens after Henry VIII broke with Rome as did Irish rebels, but the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 restored entitlement to full civil rights.
The political and military relationship between Ireland and England from the Norman conquest starting in 1167 was generally loose . As was the relationship between Castile and Aragon/ Catalonia from 1479 until 1713 when the Kingdom/County's historic rights and quasi-independenct status were ended by the Bourbon monarchy.

There were frequent wars, and Ireland was reconquered several times to ensure obedience.
As for being a protectorate - how do you account for the plantations? Being a protectorate does not include largescale colonisation.
The English had quite a different relationship between the feudal Anglo-Irish aristocracy (who were mostly seen, despite differences, as 'our people' ) and the native Irish who were distrusted and despised.
 
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Patslatt1

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Pull the other one.
There were frequent wars, and Ireland was reconquered several times to ensure obedience.

As for being a protectorate - how do you account for the plantations? Being a protectorate does not include largescale colonisation.
Ireland was a protectorate for the Protestant minority and to varying extents for Catholics who suffered confiscations of land after Protestantism took control of government.
 

Patslatt1

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Maybe they have a policy , which he likes, regarding company owners ability to collect Money from their clients in the guise of VAT to pay for hospitals, schools etc but then not hand it over .
Wallace's bankruptcy led to unpaid taxes.
 
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Patslatt1

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The political and military relationship between Ireland and England from the Norman conquest starting in 1167 was generally loose . As was the relationship between Castile and Aragon/ Catalonia from 1479 until 1713 when the Kingdom/County's historic rights and quasi-independenct status were ended by the Bourbon monarchy.



The English had quite a different relationship between the feudal Anglo-Irish aristocracy (who were mostly seen, despite differences, as 'our people' ) and the native Irish who were distrusted and despised.
The English regarded the Pale of Dublin as ethnically English and a possible base for launching a reconquest of Ireland. They probably looked down on the native Irish simply because most Irish were forest dwellers who had a primitive existence compared to the relatively advanced English society. England was lucky to inherit the Greek and Roman civilisation from the Norman conquest.
 

redmonite

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Mick Wallace would support Pol Pot if he was knocking around today.

As long as someone is anti-usa Mick is on board with them, that's how he makes his crust these days
It seems to be a general rule on the left , that any opponent of the US must be OK.
 


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