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JacquesHughes

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Euractiv.com describes how a (much anticipated) EU summit with Turkey 'fell apart' on 7 March.
Merkel-Davutoglu wheeling-dealing wrecks EU summit – EurActiv.com

The 'new proposals' came from the Turkish side, were not presented to the member states' leaders beforehand, were welcomed prematurely and haggled upon by Angela Merkel and President Tusk alone, were arguably incompatible with some of the undertakings in the UN Refugee Convention of 1951, and some of the unclear 'rights' in the Fundamental Charter of Rights that was bundled into the Lisbon Treaty eg 'collective expulsions are forbidden'.

Critical EU diplomats and governments are concerned at the high handed character of the Merkel negotiation, the desperate willingness to overlook Turkey's role in the Syrian civil war, the authoritarian tendencies within the Turkish government and the untried nature of what was being proposed- the 'one for one' exchanges of expelled people for refugees.

The European man in the street might ask himself , 'could the cure be worse than the disease?' Some might uncharitably recall 20 years ago , when Turkish actions against Kurds, unregretted by the Turkish state, were a principal cause of refugees.

The hope that someone ('Turkey') is going to solve the refugee crisis for Europe is a mirage. The EU will have to change itself, the incentives, the procedures, the entitlements it offers, and after all these years, maybe accept changing Turkey is a tough call, but engaging with Syria, a desperate and venal regime, vulnerable to persuasive incentives, may be a better long term strategy; and Russia may be just giving them the opportunity
Syria conflict: Russia's Putin orders 'main part' of forces out - BBC News

Will the EU fund a Marshall Plan for Syria?
 

Dubstudent

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There is an onus on the European Union to help Libya and Syria get back on their feet as countries.

After all it was the European Union's Islamist mates who completely destroyed Libya as a functioning society and destroyed vast swathes of Syria. These are indisputable facts.

Maybe in future, and I'm just putting this out there as a suggestion, it would be better for the EU not to support people whose ideology is pretty much the same as Al Qaeda/ISIS. Especially when it comes to expecting them to successfully be able to rebuild a state they destroyed.

Y'know I can't quite think of one example in history where a pack of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists overran a country and made it a better place. Maybe the EU states were optimistic and expected those Islamist fellas they supported in Libya and Syria to somehow do it. Just now that hopefully (and I really mean hopefully) the EU oiks have seen what many of us said years ago wouldn't work, and hasn't worked, you'd hope they might be a bit more sensible in future.

Probably a bit too much to ask with our current generation of leaders undoubtedly have to rank as the worst generation of leaders in post-war Europe (and far poorer intellectually than some of those preceding the 1930's). We can always hope though that the penny will drop, some day at least.

A pack of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists overrunning a country has never made that country a better place. It's not really a hard concept to understand, at least you wouldn't think it would be......
 
D

Deleted member 42179

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6 billion would go a long way towards rebuilding Syria
to atone for their part in supporting the US policies and jihadist groups that destroyed it.
The US should match the amount and force the saudis to do so too, then give it to Syria to help in the rebuilding so many syrians can return home. Instead they give it to Turkey whom everyone knows was instrumental in the destruction by funding arming and supporting jihadists in Syria

They should have created a rebuilding fund at least equal to what they were willing to spend destroying Libya. Same for Syria. And Ukraine too. And now it will be necessary in Yemen. But of course that won't happen.

These sickos in western governments and their vassals are great at blowing things up, but when it comes to fixing them afterwards, well they just seem to lose interest and the funding they were so happy to spend on the military only weeks previously, suddenly dries up.
 

Analyzer

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Fair point. The money could be put to better use in Syria, than in Turkey

EU policy has been a shambles for the people, though it did achieve a pr coup in terms if distracting people from an emissions scandal which threatened to bring down Merkel.

The nEU empire racket is now predisposed towards stupidity in policy making, at an increasing frequency.
 

JacquesHughes

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BBC - Home

The BBC reports that today the 'EU' [not Germany and Greece] is close to making a deal with Turkey over how to manage the millions of migrants making their way to the Greek islands.

For Ireland this is the beginning of taking a collective responsibility for migration from the worlds two most populous continents. The plan is extremely unconvincing:
* a discrimination will be made between Syrian refugees (accepted from camps in Turkey, only) and other nationalities.
* persons intercepted at sea (or possibly landing on beaches) will be 'sent back' to Turkey, after a 'hearing' by Greece (where's the resource for that?)
* the numbers sent back by 'the EU' ( I hope the re-fouling entity is clearly legally Greece) will determine the numbers accepted from refugee camps in Turkey
* Turkish citizens get reduced visa requirements to travel to (or disappear into) the EU. The will work slightly better in regulation-heavy continental states- Ireland will be an open goal.
* the lot is allegedly in accordance with 'EU law'

By this horlicks they intend to avoid any reform of the structure of laws they have set up which offer great incentives to become a refugee in Europe eg lifelong residence (not for the duration of your conflict or dictatorship), work visa, services to find work, university fees paid, equal rights to welfare benefits and social housing alongside the receiving country's nationals.

What's the alternative?
It is necessary to recognise the special case of Syria, all of whose citizens face severe danger, and are in a very different very different situation to that of Afghanistan, Eritrea and Iraq. Shelter should be temporary eg 5 years renewable. There should be no obligation upon Member States to provide equal benefits and housing if their own citizens are disadvantaged-these temporary residents get shelter, but where resources are limited, in lesser quality accommodation than our own nationals. University fees should be subject to means testing.

I might point out, this enormous issue got zero discussion during the recent Irish general election. Let's hope the Irish people have chosen able, far-sighted , imaginative, international representatives who can figure a way through this mess- but if they have, it was without the benefit of ever hearing what those representatives' ideas were.
 

davidcameron

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The BBC reports that today the 'EU' [not Germany and Greece] is close to making a deal with Turkey over how to manage the millions of migrants making their way to the Greek islands.

For Ireland this is the beginning of taking a collective responsibility for migration from the worlds two most populous continents. The plan is extremely unconvincing:
* a discrimination will be made between Syrian refugees (accepted from camps in Turkey, only) and other nationalities.
* persons intercepted at sea (or possibly landing on beaches) will be 'sent back' to Turkey, after a 'hearing' by Greece (where's the resource for that?)
* the numbers sent back by 'the EU' ( I hope the re-fouling entity is clearly legally Greece) will determine the numbers accepted from refugee camps in Turkey
* Turkish citizens get reduced visa requirements to travel to (or disappear into) the EU. The will work slightly better in regulation-heavy continental states- Ireland will be an open goal.
* the lot is allegedly in accordance with 'EU law'

The obstacles to Europe's migrant plan with Turkey - BBC News
Among Turkey's demands to secure a deal is visa-free access to the EU for Turks, ideally by the end of June, but there is significant political resistance. It would allow more than 70 million Turks to travel (but not work) visa-free in Europe's Schengen zone.

By the way, Ireland and the UK are not in the Schengen zone.

Reality Check: How soon can Turkey join the EU? - BBC News

For visa liberalisation to happen, Turkey has to meet 72 benchmarks on everything from biometric passports to judicial cooperation.
 

Karloff

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The end goal is to have tens of millions of additional Muslims in Europe, all that is left is to wrap up how that end goal is arrived at and manufacture justifications for it. The EU played a key role in the regime changes that generated the immigrants - the EU elite are in on it of course and the enemies of the indigenous people of the continent.

That is actually the source of our woes not this one policy. Get political control of our continent back and we won't have to worry about things like this happening. We have to ask questions about leaders who would do this to us, put us in this position - who would also put Greece through the ringer and who are preparing to sell out our freedoms and democracy and environmental protections to American cutthroat corporations in the TTIP agreement. AND who are printing trillions of Eurose (robbed from saver's pockets) to buy bonds in order to buoy the US stock exchange and transfer wealth upstairs. I mean you have to wonder what comes next.

The leadership is very wrong. The Yanks love them though, they do everything for America's oligarchy.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/1349...gher-following-ecb-s-quantitative-easing.html

In the US (as will be the EU) their QE policy has been almost completely responsible for all movement upwards in their stock market.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-f...t-s-move-since-2008--analysis-194426366.html#
 

GDPR

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Oh they may well strike a deal, but it simply will not happen. Merkel like her pal Inda, and other cronies across Europe are political corpses in the waiting and their initiatives will only succeed in further weakening the authority of the EU. Individual member states will more and more simply ignore Brussels and persue their own national agenda, or implement the mandate on which they were elected, which is not a policy of open gates migration to those outside the EU, never was and never will be.
 

flavirostris

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I'd say she caused the migrant crisis and now she's trying to manage it.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I'd say she caused the migrant crisis and now she's trying to manage it.

Bury it more likely - but like a corpse in a shallow grave it's likely to become something most unpleasant.

Merkel has migrants blood on her hands - the "welcome to Germany" beacon has drawn more and more "irregular" migrants from places we've never heard of who now expect a welcome mat outside a free house and EU social welfare for life.

The whole idea of needing Turkey as a buffer would never have arisen if the flood gates hadn't opened in the first place.
 

Cynicist

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I'd say she caused the migrant crisis and now she's trying to manage it.

For sure Merkel's open door invitation was crazy but before that Western powers and more recently Russians have bombed Syria into the last century while being unwilling to fight Daesh on the ground because of no longer accepting flag draped coffins and distraught own citizens.

Bombing from 30K feet using a control 3k miles away is a curse on mankind because it separates the bombing from the bombed and gives an illusion of no consequences because of claimed smart bombs.

Not long ago we saw the usual war loving Tories in Westminster hooping over the speeches to bomb Syria but now they hide behind silence while accusing Russia of having committed bombing atrocities. What is the score for how many MSF hospitals have been bombed by the Us and by Russia.
 

JacquesHughes

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At this point of it's engagement with the EU Ireland, the political entity, should have realised that it has to REACT and ADAPT in order to mitigate decisions made at the EU centre. Sailing on as we did before is not what will happen.
As a result of the EU deal with Turkey yesterday Ireland can expect that visa free travel from the 75 million people of Turkey will cause: an increase in illegal workers, an increase in mysteriously finananced families living here seeking schooling , health services and possibly rented housing, a wider range of Islamic practice than we have seen (most of the current Moslem migrants in Ireland have been seeking a more westernised lifestyle- that will not be the case when every citizen of a large Moslem country has a right to come here), an increase in asylum applications presented by Turkish nationals (from many sources, including those who claim , credibly, that new policy and practices by Turkey ( by our standards an exceptionally aggressive and ambitious country) now put them at risk, and those eg LGBT presenting the backwardness or intolerance of their fellow citizens or families ( as opposed to the State) as their 'risk'.
Ireland should:
* implement obligatory pension funds established by employers for all employees (60% of Irish private sector workers have no pension provision)
* increase obligations upon employers to check work visa status of persons interviewed for jobs
* introduce a more bureaucratic procedure for marriages cf 'the banns' to hamper sham marriages
* devote more resources to finding and helping 'child brides'
* adopt speedier asylum procedures, (faster turnaround) and recognise a wider number a 'safe countries'
* decrease the financial incentives of asylum status
 

Analyzer

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The Angela Merkel approach to crisis management, involves turning a problem into a disaster, & eventually into a chaotic mess. And all the while shouting "more EU rope" at anybody who looks at it objectively and asks what on all earth is she doing.

Merkel's tendency is to make everything worse, & be at the centre of the mess.

Everything gets subsumed in her psycholigical requirement for attention seeking. And the more she messes everything up, the more people get turned off, & the more she creates the ned for more attention.

She is the problem inflator. There is something inherently flawed with the entire nEU empire project that one person this way inclined, can have such a cathastopjic influence. There is also domething deeply troubling about the mefia in the so called free world, that one powerful fool gets a free pass because she is an ultra-corporatist.
 

davidcameron

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At this point of it's engagement with the EU Ireland, the political entity, should have realised that it has to REACT and ADAPT in order to mitigate decisions made at the EU centre. Sailing on as we did before is not what will happen.
As a result of the EU deal with Turkey yesterday Ireland can expect that visa free travel from the 75 million people of Turkey will cause: an increase in illegal workers, an increase in mysteriously finananced families living here seeking schooling , health services and possibly rented housing, a wider range of Islamic practice than we have seen (most of the current Moslem migrants in Ireland have been seeking a more westernised lifestyle- that will not be the case when every citizen of a large Moslem country has a right to come here), an increase in asylum applications presented by Turkish nationals (from many sources, including those who claim , credibly, that new policy and practices by Turkey ( by our standards an exceptionally aggressive and ambitious country) now put them at risk, and those eg LGBT presenting the backwardness or intolerance of their fellow citizens or families ( as opposed to the State) as their 'risk'.
Ireland should:
* implement obligatory pension funds established by employers for all employees (60% of Irish private sector workers have no pension provision)
* increase obligations upon employers to check work visa status of persons interviewed for jobs
* introduce a more bureaucratic procedure for marriages cf 'the banns' to hamper sham marriages
* devote more resources to finding and helping 'child brides'
* adopt speedier asylum procedures, (faster turnaround) and recognise a wider number a 'safe countries'
* decrease the financial incentives of asylum status

Under the deal, Turks will have visa-free access but not the right to work.

The deal isn't as easy for Turkey as it sounds.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35828810

Under initial proposals, for each Syrian migrant returned to Turkey, a different Syrian would be resettled in the EU directly from the country.

In return, the EU would double financial aid to Turkey promised last year, make a fresh push on talks over Turkey's eventual membership of the EU and offer visa-free travel to Europe's Schengen states.

However, those proposals have since been watered down, lowering expectation on greater financial help and talks on EU membership and linking visa-free travel to 72 conditions to which Turkey must agree.
 

blinding

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If Merkel wanted to allow this amount of Immigration she should have taken Germany out of the Eu to do so .

She is neither President or Queen of the Eu or Europe for that matter .
 

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