Michael Collins: An Irish hero?

eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
General Michael Collins was almost definately Ireland's greatest hero.

He was IRB/IRA's most effective military commander. His intelligence/counter intelligence ring is what won the war of independance for us. The treaty was in his words a "stepping stone". Despite being a great military commander Collins was a man of peace. He understood that The Anglo Irish Treaty was what the country needed. It may not have given complete independance but it was, in his own words, "A stepping stone".

Saying that O'Higgins deserved a bullet is utter bull.

He was shot by anti-democratic thugs, the IRA who were supported by that knob DeV. All they did was undermine the Irish Free State when it needed to rebuild. He set up the Garda Síochána and worked hard for Irish autonomy from the commonwealth.

If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
 


eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
odie1kanobe said:
Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
 

angelcity

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
12
Drico said:
General Michael Collins was almost definately Ireland's greatest hero.

He was IRB/IRA's most effective military commander. His intelligence/counter intelligence ring is what won the war of independance for us. The treaty was in his words a "stepping stone". Despite being a great military commander Collins was a man of peace. He understood that The Anglo Irish Treaty was what the country needed. It may not have given complete independance but it was, in his own words, "A stepping stone".

Saying that O'Higgins deserved a bullet is utter bull.

He was shot by anti-democratic thugs, the IRA who were supported by that knob DeV. All they did was undermine the Irish Free State when it needed to rebuild. He set up the Garda Síochána and worked hard for Irish autonomy from the commonwealth.

If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
Well the hope is still there anyway because north and south are connected by land not by sea or water so the spirit of united ireland and the seas is bloody there mate.
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,927
Harpo said:
meriwether said:
The Dail voted for the treaty.

The people voted for the treaty in a referendum.

The end.
I bet you support re-running the Lisbon treaty
He's also cruel to blind people and steals sweeties from little kids as well..... :roll:
 

angelcity

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
12
angelcity said:
Drico said:
General Michael Collins was almost definately Ireland's greatest hero.

He was IRB/IRA's most effective military commander. His intelligence/counter intelligence ring is what won the war of independance for us. The treaty was in his words a "stepping stone". Despite being a great military commander Collins was a man of peace. He understood that The Anglo Irish Treaty was what the country needed. It may not have given complete independance but it was, in his own words, "A stepping stone".

Saying that O'Higgins deserved a bullet is utter bull.

He was shot by anti-democratic thugs, the IRA who were supported by that knob DeV. All they did was undermine the Irish Free State when it needed to rebuild. He set up the Garda Síochána and worked hard for Irish autonomy from the commonwealth.

If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
Well the hope is still there anyway because north and south are connected by land not by sea or water so the spirit of united ireland and the seas is bloody there mate.
I tell you what, i hate some people that pretend on our taxations in the battle of the titans. l.o.l
 

Harpo

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
76
The OD said:
Harpo said:
meriwether said:
The Dail voted for the treaty.

The people voted for the treaty in a referendum.

The end.
I bet you support re-running the Lisbon treaty
He's also cruel to blind people and steals sweeties from little kids as well..... :roll:
Are posters on here becoming dumber?
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
The Collective. said:
DOD said:
[quote="The Collective.":3ottferx]You dont have a clue about Irish history. Anyone who thinks the civil war was over the treaty, is a complete idiot. You should ashamed that you dont know you countries history.
You should be ashamed that you don't know how to say 'your country's history'

If it wasn't about the treaty mr Genius what was it about. I would accept that partition wasn't the main reason, but the other terms of the treaty certainly were the main causes of the war.The major objection would probably have been the oath. Before you say that wasn't worth starting a war over, remember the time we are talking about.
Attacking someones grammar or spelling, is low.

[/quote:3ottferx]

Not when that same person is questioning someone else's knowledge of history and saying they should be ashamed, even though that other person was actually correct in their knowledge. It's quite simple really, as a short, fat man, I am not going to publicly slate someone for being short and fat, even when they are, as it would make me look like a right plonker. In the same way, questioning a person's knowledge, while displaying an inability to spell a basic word is blatant hypocrisy. Maybe you have dyslexia, if you do, then fine but be honest about it, otherwise you just look like a tuppenny haypenny clown who can't spell looking down his nose on people for being less intelligent or so he believes. Stop verbally attacking other posters and I'll stop verbally attacking you.

As for your substantive point, which, as per usual is factually incorrect. The Pact was effectively torn up the day before the election. As for the murdering civillians, please point me to where this happened as it certainly is new info to me. Infact, the IRA abandoned some proposed attacks during the civil war due to the scope for civillian casualties. It is an historical fact that the civil war was started by the pro-treaty forces, when they shelled the four courts. An act that was ordered by Michael Collins.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
Piss off
 

eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
angelcity said:
Drico said:
General Michael Collins was almost definately Ireland's greatest hero.

He was IRB/IRA's most effective military commander. His intelligence/counter intelligence ring is what won the war of independance for us. The treaty was in his words a "stepping stone". Despite being a great military commander Collins was a man of peace. He understood that The Anglo Irish Treaty was what the country needed. It may not have given complete independance but it was, in his own words, "A stepping stone".

Saying that O'Higgins deserved a bullet is utter bull.

He was shot by anti-democratic thugs, the IRA who were supported by that knob DeV. All they did was undermine the Irish Free State when it needed to rebuild. He set up the Garda Síochána and worked hard for Irish autonomy from the commonwealth.

If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
Well the hope is still there anyway because north and south are connected by land not by sea or water so the spirit of united ireland and the seas is bloody there mate.
There may be hope but what are the chances of the UK ever giving into a united Ireland while the IRA are still going around and the likes of McGuinness and Adams are involved up there. They are bloody criminals and there is no chance that the British Administration will ever give in to the demands of terrorists, they would lose a ridiculous amount of international reputation points...
 

eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
Piss off
Why?

Are you questioning the veracity of my statement?
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
Piss off
Why?

Are you questioning the veracity of my statement?
YUP as you can't prove it.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
Drico said:
If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
Collins was not murdered, he was killed in a war, totally legitimate. In all fairness what would Collins have done to unify the country any quicker? Unlike what some of the more fawning praise of him would have us believe, Collins could not dodge bullets (well that was proven) ,heal the sick or walk on water. He was a good IRA leader, but many others were as good if not better and we hear nothing about them. Tom barry being the obvious one. Michael Collins is just a convenient hero for people who know little of irish history. Don't kid yourself, by your warped concept of democracy, Collins was as anti-democratic as anyone. He could order a spy or an informer to be killed before going for his tea and another one before bed, without losing much sleep. It was a war and normal morality is often suspended, Collins did that no less and probably more than the people you vilify.

As for Dev, he had republicans killed and let others die on hungerstrike, he was as bad as your crowd.
 

Harpo

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
76
Drico said:
angelcity said:
Drico said:
General Michael Collins was almost definately Ireland's greatest hero.

He was IRB/IRA's most effective military commander. His intelligence/counter intelligence ring is what won the war of independance for us. The treaty was in his words a "stepping stone". Despite being a great military commander Collins was a man of peace. He understood that The Anglo Irish Treaty was what the country needed. It may not have given complete independance but it was, in his own words, "A stepping stone".

Saying that O'Higgins deserved a bullet is utter bull.

He was shot by anti-democratic thugs, the IRA who were supported by that knob DeV. All they did was undermine the Irish Free State when it needed to rebuild. He set up the Garda Síochána and worked hard for Irish autonomy from the commonwealth.

If both him and Collins had not been murdered the Irish Republic would have come into being much quicker and if not for the terrorism of the IRA then, I believe, a united Ireland would be a much more likely possibility.
Well the hope is still there anyway because north and south are connected by land not by sea or water so the spirit of united ireland and the seas is bloody there mate.
There may be hope but what are the chances of the UK ever giving into a united Ireland while the IRA are still going around and the likes of McGuinness and Adams are involved up there. They are bloody criminals and there is no chance that the British Administration will ever give in to the demands of terrorists, they would lose a ridiculous amount of international reputation points...
Ironically morons like you were saying the same thing about Collins in 1920.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
odie1kanobe said:
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)[/quote]

[/quote]

Have you no fecking sense of irony? You condemn republicans for being anti-democratic murderers, yet also condemn Dev during the Tan war for not personally killing enough people. How much fighting did Griffiths do at Easter week? None because they knew he was a waste of space and didn't want him. How much fighting did Collins himself do in the Tan war? Probably no more than dev did. Commending Collins for his fighting ability during the tan war is like saying Alex Ferguson scored some great goals for Man United.
 

eoinod

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
261
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
Piss off
Why?

Are you questioning the veracity of my statement?
YUP as you can't prove it.
On the newspaper
http://www.independent.ie/national-...ting-in-irish-press-file-reveals-485691.html

http://www.village.ie/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2611

http://www.xanga.com/micheailin/151219895/item.html

And this quote is taken from his wikipedia article:
"De Valera's supporters and detractors argue about de Valera's bravery during the Easter Rising. His supporters claim he showed leadership skills and a meticulous ability for planning. His detractors claim he suffered a nervous breakdown during the Rising. According to accounts from 1916 de Valera was seen running about, giving conflicting orders, refusing to sleep and on one occasion, having forgotten the password, almost getting himself shot in the dark by his own men. According to one account, de Valera, on being forced to sleep by one subordinate who promised to sit beside him and wake him if he was needed, suddenly woke up, his eyes "wild," screaming, "Set fire to the railway! Set fire to the railway!" Later in the Ballykinlar internment Camp one de Valera loyalist approached another internee, a medical doctor, recounted the story and asked for a medical opinion as to de Valera's condition. He also threatened to sue the doctor, future Fine Gael TD and minister, Dr. Tom O'Higgins, if he ever repeated the story.[8]"

http://irelandsown.net/devalera.html also tells a bit about it.


Above all though, you should read Tim Pat Coogan's biography and note that he sterted off writing that as a De Valera supporter
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
odie1kanobe said:
Drico said:
[quote="odie1kanobe":368p9uaa]Was Collins an Irish Hero ................damm right he was

Was de Valera an Irish Hero................damm right he was

I will happily honour the people who fought for our country........what happened after Independence is another story but doesn't make them less Heroes in my eyes.
DeV didn't really do a whole lot of fighting.

1916-nervous breakdown in Boland's Mill

War of Independance-In America collecting money to support the families of IRA members who had been arrested or killed. This money was then used to set up his newspaper...nice man :)
Piss off
Why?

Are you questioning the veracity of my statement?
YUP as you can't prove it.
On the newspaper
http://www.independent.ie/national-...ting-in-irish-press-file-reveals-485691.html

http://www.village.ie/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2611

http://www.xanga.com/micheailin/151219895/item.html

And this quote is taken from his wikipedia article:
"De Valera's supporters and detractors argue about de Valera's bravery during the Easter Rising. His supporters claim he showed leadership skills and a meticulous ability for planning. His detractors claim he suffered a nervous breakdown during the Rising. According to accounts from 1916 de Valera was seen running about, giving conflicting orders, refusing to sleep and on one occasion, having forgotten the password, almost getting himself shot in the dark by his own men. According to one account, de Valera, on being forced to sleep by one subordinate who promised to sit beside him and wake him if he was needed, suddenly woke up, his eyes "wild," screaming, "Set fire to the railway! Set fire to the railway!" Later in the Ballykinlar internment Camp one de Valera loyalist approached another internee, a medical doctor, recounted the story and asked for a medical opinion as to de Valera's condition. He also threatened to sue the doctor, future Fine Gael TD and minister, Dr. Tom O'Higgins, if he ever repeated the story.[8]"

http://irelandsown.net/devalera.html also tells a bit about it.


Above all though, you should read Tim Pat Coogan's biography and note that he sterted off writing that as a De Valera supporter[/quote:368p9uaa]


So you have no medical personnel present in 1916 that said he had a nervous breakdown and you are relying on second third and fourth hand accounts.

Is that really it ?

Whats the difference between a Nervous breakdown and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder brought on by war and lack of sleep ?

When you become medically qualified to tell us the difference then come back.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
Drico said:
There may be hope but what are the chances of the UK ever giving into a united Ireland while the IRA are still going around and the likes of McGuinness and Adams are involved up there. They are bloody criminals and there is no chance that the British Administration will ever give in to the demands of terrorists, they would lose a ridiculous amount of international reputation points...
Two problems with that little rant. First of all, the IRA are not still 'going around'. The IMC which was established at the behest of unionists have admitted that. The ICA are more of a threat to either state (they're quick with those knitting needles) and the British government have had little problem with those people you call terrorists, for the last 12 years or so. Sure wasn't it a year and a bit ago that they were all sipping champagne together?
 

The Collective.

Active member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
159
DOD said:
Not when that same person is questioning someone else's knowledge of history and saying they should be ashamed, even though that other person was actually correct in their knowledge. It's quite simple really, as a short, fat man, I am not going to publicly slate someone for being short and fat, even when they are, as it would make me look like a right plonker. In the same way, questioning a person's knowledge, while displaying an inability to spell a basic word is blatant hypocrisy. Maybe you have dyslexia, if you do, then fine but be honest about it, otherwise you just look like a tuppenny haypenny clown who can't spell looking down his nose on people for being less intelligent or so he believes. Stop verbally attacking other posters and I'll stop verbally attacking you.

Point out where I corrected your spelling?

In an open public debate you wont notice I cant spell properly, since I would be speaking and not typing. I am also using a spell check when I post. If that fails what am I to do?

You are a coward.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
The Collective. said:
DOD said:
Not when that same person is questioning someone else's knowledge of history and saying they should be ashamed, even though that other person was actually correct in their knowledge. It's quite simple really, as a short, fat man, I am not going to publicly slate someone for being short and fat, even when they are, as it would make me look like a right plonker. In the same way, questioning a person's knowledge, while displaying an inability to spell a basic word is blatant hypocrisy. Maybe you have dyslexia, if you do, then fine but be honest about it, otherwise you just look like a tuppenny haypenny clown who can't spell looking down his nose on people for being less intelligent or so he believes. Stop verbally attacking other posters and I'll stop verbally attacking you.

Point out where I corrected your spelling?

In an open public debate you wont notice I cant spell properly, since I would be speaking and not typing. I am also using a spell check when I post. If that fails what am I to do?

You are a coward.
You questioned Harpo's knowledge of history. You don't need a spell check to realise that your is spelled your or that country's (as in belonging to the country) takes an apostrophe.

My whole point is that I only brought up your failings because you brought up someone else's perceived failings.

Already in this thread, you have claimed that the treaty had nothing to do with the civil war. Wrong

You also implied that the republicans started the civil war by 'murdering civillians'
Wrong.

Frankly my man if you were publicly debating me, I would be too busy trying to avoid laughing at the stupidity and inaccuracy of your points to care if you could spell or not. In fact I could probably chop off my left bollock, put it up on a podium and it would make more sense than you.
 

The Collective.

Active member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
159
DOD said:
Already in this thread, you have claimed that the treaty had nothing to do with the civil war. Wrong.
Is if the tretay wasnt starting a war before the pact was made, why should it be worth starting a war after the pact was made?
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top