Michael Collins hat removed from Dublin museum

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Ok then, for the sake of argument I'll concede that the affidavit does in fact exist.

It's still meaningless because the person who swore the affidavit wasn't a witness to the events.
What part of supporting documents do you not understand?

Didn't the wife of Dalton's MI5 Colleague - the one he ran off with, have his diary - the one where he admitted he shot Collins?
 


rainmaker

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What part of supporting documents do you not understand?

Didn't the wife of Dalton's MI5 Colleague - the one he ran off with, have his diary - the one where he admitted he shot Collins?
Did you just make this up as well?
 

McTell

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Even if dalton didn't shoot collins, his silence afterwards about the sudden end of his generalissimo was very strange.

Collins was resurrected as a useful martyred ikon of the military idea, "the man who won the war", but his decisions in early 1922 were almost all bad or wrong.
 

JohnD66

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No proper autopsy - no inquest. Strange how he was brought to a British military hospital.

Documents pertaining to Collins’s death destroyed or disappeared right before Fianna Fail went into government in the 'Southern Ireland' State.

Dr. Leo Ahern said there was only one large entrance wound and no exit wound. No forehead wound was found. Dr. Michael Riordan also examined the body and agreed with Ahern. One large, deep entrance wound with part of the head blown off was the conclusion. Dr. Christy Kelly confirmed Riordan’s appraisal, Dr. Gerard Ahern spoke of Kelly telling him about the wound and Dr. Cagney told the same story. Gogarty, the embalmer, said he thoroughly checked for forehead wounds and found none.

The fact remains - Emmet Dalton's own family signed an affidavit stating that he did in fact shoot Collins.
To be fair to you (and I don't believe for a minute that Dalton shot Collins) there are a lot of questions surrounding the medical inquest and the lack of an autopsy. I would put this down to the absolute shock the pro-Treatyites were in when they heard of Collins' death. But who knows?

Regarding the wound. To the best of my knowledge and reading around it, a bullet on entry cannot make the kind of wound that Collins had in the back of his head, only an exit wound can. Cetainly as small calibre bullet from a pistol that it is allegedthat Dalton had on him could not do it. As I posted above, some of the doctors who examined Collins' body said they did find a small entrance wound that others missed on his hairline. But as there was not a proper inquiry or autopsy, we probably will never know for sure.

The afadvait that his nephew left shortly before his death (in his eighties) 1980s is certainly curious all right, so thanks for darwing my attention to that. (Cited incidentally in the recent bio of Collins by Willima Murphy and Anne Dolan) But that is a long way from 'Dalton's family accepted that he shot Collins'. One member of his family, a nephew said this 60 years after the events.

Regarding the whole theory, that the British through Dalton killed him; simple question, why on earth would they when he was busy putting down the anti-Treatyites in defence of the Treaty? They were extremely doubtful that Cosgrave and co would be able to pull this off and Macready for one thought it was a question of 'if not when' the British Army would have to reoccupy Ireland after Collins' death. Yes Collins was 'difficult' from theur point of view on the north, but still, I can't buy it.
 

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If anyone's interested, there's a series of papers posted on academia.edu by a bloke called Daniel Linehan, reviewing the published literature on Collins' death.

One deals specifically with the "Collins hat" in the National Museum and concludes that (a) it's too small to have been his and (b) it most likely belonged to either Dalton or another FS Army officer called McConnell.

Another reviews the various claims about who actually fired the fatal shot, including statements from participants in the ambush party and members of Collins' convoy. Essentially, it concludes that a lot of people couldn't have seen what they claimed to have seen cos it was twilight and visibility was poor, or there were vehicles blocking their view, or they'd've had to be able see around a bend in the road, or they were scarpering away in the opposite direction at the time, or they weren't even there at all.

Well worth reading and they're free once you register. I've no skin in the game either way, my only conclusion is that either both sides were pretty crap soldiers or neither side was that pushed about inflicting significant fatalities on the other.

Maybe less so the Republicans, seeing as they'd laid mines for the convoy, but with 40-50 men involved altogether plus the armoured car banging off rounds until its gun jammed, you'd expect more casualties than just a Republican getting shot in the arse and a FS soldier being wounded in the wrist and neck. Collins being fatally wounded just comes across as him drawing an incredibly small short straw.
 

McTell

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To be fair to you (and I don't believe for a minute that Dalton shot Collins) there are a lot of questions surrounding the medical inquest and the lack of an autopsy. I would put this down to the absolute shock the pro-Treatyites were in when they heard of Collins' death. But who knows?

Regarding the wound. To the best of my knowledge and reading around it, a bullet on entry cannot make the kind of wound that Collins had in the back of his head, only an exit wound can. Cetainly as small calibre bullet from a pistol that it is allegedthat Dalton had on him could not do it. As I posted above, some of the doctors who examined Collins' body said they did find a small entrance wound that others missed on his hairline. But as there was not a proper inquiry or autopsy, we probably will never know for sure.
//
A bullet fired at an angle across the back of the head could enter and exit and leave a big hole.

Anyway after being firemans-lifted head down across 3 fields, there wouldn't be much left to examine.

There was a big head wound so there wasn't much point in an autopsy. In a firefight with guys rushing round in all directions, the bullet could have come from anywhere.

You join an army and put on a uniform, and you can get killed any time. Why does it seem odd to many that collins stopped a bullet?
 


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