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Michael Collins-movie


THR

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Nov 15, 2006
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A couple of weeks ago the film "Michael Collins" was shown on the Finnish TV. A very interesting film.

However, I wonder whether the film has caused uproar in Ireland at the time it came out as the film depicts Collins as a hero thinking of the interests of all the Irish while De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming bastard.

Some probably say that the film was, what you call, a production of West-Brit imagination, not reality.
 

Limerick Lad

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THR said:
A couple of weeks ago the film "Michael Collins" was shown on the Finnish TV. A very interesting film.

However, I wonder whether the film has caused uproar in Ireland at the time it came out as the film depicts Collins as a hero thinking of the interests of all the Irish while De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.

Some probably say that the film was, what you call, a production of West-Brit imagination, not reality.
I thought that it depicted DeValera more as a self-serving, mean-spirited and cowardly b****** but then the truth hurts!
 

kerrynorth

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THR said:
A couple of weeks ago the film "Michael Collins" was shown on the Finnish TV. A very interesting film.

However, I wonder whether the film has caused uproar in Ireland at the time it came out as the film depicts Collins as a hero thinking of the interests of all the Irish while De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.

Some probably say that the film was, what you call, a production of West-Brit imagination, not reality.
It caused some contraversey at the time. One politician thought it might have added 2% to the FG vote in the 1997 general election.

The Collins/de Valera dynamic in the film would reflect the FG point of view as well as that of many neutrals. FFer's would not agree of course!
 

Bogwarrior

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I think people left the cinema with the same views as when they entered.
I found myself by the end of the film, very sympathetic to those who executed Collins. Much as I felt pre-film. It did paint a poor picture of Dev(mainly because he's a popular hate figure, and almost cool to criticise him) I felt Dev was correct in his handling of the Treaty, and was correct to reject it. However, by the 30s and 40's, he hunted and jailed Republicans. Poacher turned gamekeeper. But this is a common trait of Republican leaders to the present day.
 

Alliance

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THR said:
De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.
a fairly accurate dipiction if ask me.
 

Bogwarrior

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Alliance said:
THR said:
De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.
a fairly accurate dipiction if ask me.
Name a politician who isn't? Just one. :lol:
 

tonys

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THR said:
A couple of weeks ago the film "Michael Collins" was shown on the Finnish TV. A very interesting film.

However, I wonder whether the film has caused uproar in Ireland at the time it came out as the film depicts Collins as a hero thinking of the interests of all the Irish while De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.

Some probably say that the film was, what you call, a production of West-Brit imagination, not reality.
It was a production of FG imagination, not reality. Jordan openly admitted as much, his was a “FG house”.
If you’re looking for a nuanced view of Dev, you must look elsewhere I’m afraid. What you’ll get here from most FG’ers at least (Limerick Lad etc) is the usual childish black & white nonsense. I would respect both Collins and Dev equally. In the end they took different sides, but that had more to do with circumstances than ideals.
 

Cork

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For such an eventful time in Irish history - this was both a disapointing and boring film.

Julia Roberts and her Oirish accent.

depicts Collins as a hero thinking of the interests of all the Irish while De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.
Very black and white concepts behind the story.

Very much simplified for the international audience.
 

jcw

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Julia Roberts makes me cringe with embarrassment for her.
 

Cael

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Bogwarrior said:
Alliance said:
THR said:
De Valera in the film is depicted to be something of a double-faced, backstabbing scheming b******.
a fairly accurate dipiction if ask me.
Name a politician who isn't? Just one. :lol:
I think Dev was an idealist as a young man. He put his life on the line many times and as a POW he defied the prison authorites at every turn. The treaty would have been rejected by those who took their oath to the Republic seriously, regardless of what position Dev took. Dev stood by his Republican principals during the civil war. But, sadly, as we see in our own time, the lure of power is very tempting to a man of extraordinary ability. They go into the British system fully confident that they can change it. But it is not the system which changes. By their very entering the enemy system they have changed and lost their Republican position. After that it is a very well trodden slippery slope to defending that system to the point of hunting down Republicans and murdering them.

Neill Jorden is something of a victim of his time. It was a time when many Irish wanted to turn their backs on what is happening in the six counties and were looking for a justification for this selfish attitude.
 

DOD

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From an entertainment point of view, Michael Collins was quite a good film. From a historical perspective however, it was sheer farce. The thing that annoyed me most was the 'bad guy' music being played when the anti-Treatyites walked out of the Dail.
 

paypal

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bogwarrior:

" very sympathetic to those who executed Collins"


????? Collins wasn't executed.
 

President Bartlet

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Whilst I enjoyed the movie overall i did feel there was an attempt to put the blame for Collins murder on Dev. It has never been proven thst Dev ordered that attack and it was most likely that the Anti-Treatite forces in Beal na mBeal got lucky - the opprtunity was there - they took it.

Was Dev even in Cork at this time?
 

Pidge

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I hear that The Treaty with Brendan Gleeson is quite good. I'm having trouble getting my hands on it, though. Any ideas where one can get it?
 

DOD

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Pidge said:
I hear that The Treaty with Brendan Gleeson is quite good. I'm having trouble getting my hands on it, though. Any ideas where one can get it?
Not sure, I know it has been shown on RTE a few times. I never saw it myself I must say.
 

President Bartlet

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I don't know how to get a copy but I have seen it - it is an excellent film that protrays the period and events very well - much more accurate historically.
 

pfkf

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President Bartlet said:
Whilst I enjoyed the movie overall i did feel there was an attempt to put the blame for Collins murder on Dev. It has never been proven thst Dev ordered that attack and it was most likely that the Anti-Treatite forces in Beal na mBeal got lucky - the opprtunity was there - they took it.

Was Dev even in Cork at this time?
Yes De Valera was in west cork at the time of Michael Collins' murder, Michael Collins was on the way to meet De Valera to discuss a possible end to the civil war. so put 2 and 2 together, De Valera was down there he knew Michael Collins was going to meet him as head of state, and Michael Collins was murdered by De Valera's men, maybe De valera did not order the ambush but I'm almost certain he would have been aware that it was going to take place.
 

supamolli

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pfkf said:
President Bartlet said:
Whilst I enjoyed the movie overall i did feel there was an attempt to put the blame for Collins murder on Dev. It has never been proven thst Dev ordered that attack and it was most likely that the Anti-Treatite forces in Beal na mBeal got lucky - the opprtunity was there - they took it.

Was Dev even in Cork at this time?
Yes De Valera was in west cork at the time of Michael Collins' murder, Michael Collins was on the way to meet De Valera to discuss a possible end to the civil war. so put 2 and 2 together, De Valera was down there he knew Michael Collins was going to meet him as head of state, and Michael Collins was murdered by De Valera's men, maybe De valera did not order the ambush but I'm almost certain he would have been aware that it was going to take place.
Well that's that mystery solved then.
 

tonys

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pfkf said:
President Bartlet said:
Whilst I enjoyed the movie overall i did feel there was an attempt to put the blame for Collins murder on Dev. It has never been proven thst Dev ordered that attack and it was most likely that the Anti-Treatite forces in Beal na mBeal got lucky - the opprtunity was there - they took it.

Was Dev even in Cork at this time?
Yes De Valera was in west cork at the time of Michael Collins' murder, Michael Collins was on the way to meet De Valera to discuss a possible end to the civil war. so put 2 and 2 together, De Valera was down there he knew Michael Collins was going to meet him as head of state, and Michael Collins was murdered by De Valera's men, maybe De valera did not order the ambush but I'm almost certain he would have been aware that it was going to take place.
1. As far as I know there was no meeting planned between Dev & Collins
2. Dev was NOT the military leader of the IRA, he could neither order or stop an ambush against Collins or anybody else for that matter.
3. There is very little evidence that Dev knew that an ambush was planned and what little evidence there is suggests he tried to stop it, but couldn’t.
4. Collins wasn’t “murdered” he was killed in a war, a civil war.
5. Collins was just unlucky, if he had stayed in his armoured car, as he should have, nobody would have been killed in that ambush. If it was the IRA that killed him that day, there was nobody more surprised than themselves.
6. Since the civil war began, Dev had been trying to bring it to an end, why would he try to kill someone he could do a deal with?
7. What makes you “almost certain that Dev knew about the ambush“?
 

jjacollins

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Sep 18, 2005
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Have any of you ever read any books on the subject of Collins's killing at Beal na Blath?

Raises very interesting questions about the pro treaty Government.

Meda Ryan's "The day Michael Collins was shot" is good.
 
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