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Michael Martin - lucky, good, average or great?


Northtipp

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
22,217
Firstly, apologies about the lack of a fada in his name. Can't figure out on a iPad how to do that. Mods feel free to amend.

Anyway, we have the polls and now the bye election which show the surgence FF. like them or loathe them. This has happened at a time when FF came from it's lowest ebb and when many thought the road was irrecoverable. So one has to ask has Martin been a great leader or has he been a lucky one ?

He appears to have adopted a policy of almost shyness from the public eye and has let the likes of McGrath take the limelight. That's strikes me as clever as he still reminds people the financial collapse in Ireland which occurred under FFs watch. He has managed to manoeuvre his party to a seeming opposition to many issues which FF introduced in practice or principle, eg, property. tax and paying the bond holders. He seems to have convinced the electorate that FF were pretty much blameless or at least unlucky in timing, and what's impressive is that people now appear to be taking not an awful lot of notice of the govt war cry that they are just fixing FFs mistakes.

On the other hand was he lucky? I mean was the only way up for FF anyway? Were votes just lent to FG and particuarly Labour. Has the govt been so poor and in particular labour that options for the electorate had little choice. Have SF been poor in not exploiting the circumstances enough. Had Barney the Dinosaur been at the helm would FF have resurged?

So what do people think, good, great, average or lucky? Btw, we all know the rehearsed insults by now. Can we stick to genuine honest debate if at all possible.
 

Mackers

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,526
NT he'd more than likely think he is all of those descriptions. But you have to add he has a neck of pure brass to lead them FFers after Bertie.:)
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
I think he's intelligent but I don't respect him as a leader as he sat at the cabinet table when the economy was driven off the cliff (with FG cheering on)
 

mickterry

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,310
A little above average in my opinion. It was a tough job to take on and so far has done well enough.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
Good.

Clever and no aversion to populism :|. FG/Lab made his job a lot easier. McGrath up next.
 

neiphin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
5,581
I think he's intelligent but I don't respect him as a leader as he sat at the cabinet table when the economy was driven off the cliff (with FG cheering on)
have you any evidence
 

tigerben

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,621
Firstly, apologies about the lack of a fada in his name. Can't figure out on a iPad how to do that. Mods feel free to amend.

Anyway, we have the polls and now the bye election which show the surgence FF. like them or loathe them. This has happened at a time when FF came from it's lowest ebb and when many thought the road was irrecoverable. So one has to ask has Martin been a great leader or has he been a lucky one ?

He appears to have adopted a policy of almost shyness from the public eye and has let the likes of McGrath take the limelight. That's strikes me as clever as he still reminds people the financial collapse in Ireland which occurred under FFs watch. He has managed to manoeuvre his party to a seeming opposition to many issues which FF introduced in practice or principle, eg, property. tax and paying the bond holders. He seems to have convinced the electorate that FF were pretty much blameless or at least unlucky in timing, and what's impressive is that people now appear to be taking not an awful lot of notice of the govt war cry that they are just fixing FFs mistakes.

On the other hand was he lucky? I mean was the only way up for FF anyway? Were votes just lent to FG and particuarly Labour. Has the govt been so poor and in particular labour that options for the electorate had little choice. Have SF been poor in not exploiting the circumstances enough. Had Barney the Dinosaur been at the helm would FF have resurged?

So what do people think, good, great, average or lucky? Btw, we all know the rehearsed insults by now. Can we stick to genuine honest debate if at all possible.

Press a for a second and a little window with the different As come up and just glide your finger to the one you need.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,600
Beneficiary of consequence of having no real alternative.
 

commonman

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
5,357
I think he's intelligent but I don't respect him as a leader as he sat at the cabinet table when the economy was driven off the cliff (with FG cheering on)
Would you call him a Judas then.
 

the secretary

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
5,833
Press a for a second and a little window with the different As come up and just glide your finger to the one you need.
Steady as she goes seems to be his approach. FF has been disciplined since the O'Cuiv situation.
Big Phil only borrowed the votes so now Martin is slowly calling them back. He really could do no worse than Cowan in fairness.
He has a long way to go though.
 

Mackers

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,526
Press a for a second and a little window with the different As come up and just glide your finger to the one you need.
Have you two lads joined the Masons? Or was that a tip for using the phone?:p
 

mangaire1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,353
Michael Martin - lucky, good, average or great?

good - certainly ahead of Kenny/Gilmore.
doing a good job, in very difficult circumstances.
unlucky, i would have thought to have been FF leader, in these times.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,477
Firstly, apologies about the lack of a fada in his name. Can't figure out on a iPad how to do that. Mods feel free to amend.

Anyway, we have the polls and now the bye election which show the surgence FF. like them or loathe them. This has happened at a time when FF came from it's lowest ebb and when many thought the road was irrecoverable. So one has to ask has Martin been a great leader or has he been a lucky one ?

He appears to have adopted a policy of almost shyness from the public eye and has let the likes of McGrath take the limelight. That's strikes me as clever as he still reminds people the financial collapse in Ireland which occurred under FFs watch. He has managed to manoeuvre his party to a seeming opposition to many issues which FF introduced in practice or principle, eg, property. tax and paying the bond holders. He seems to have convinced the electorate that FF were pretty much blameless or at least unlucky in timing, and what's impressive is that people now appear to be taking not an awful lot of notice of the govt war cry that they are just fixing FFs mistakes.

On the other hand was he lucky? I mean was the only way up for FF anyway? Were votes just lent to FG and particuarly Labour. Has the govt been so poor and in particular labour that options for the electorate had little choice. Have SF been poor in not exploiting the circumstances enough. Had Barney the Dinosaur been at the helm would FF have resurged?

So what do people think, good, great, average or lucky? Btw, we all know the rehearsed insults by now. Can we stick to genuine honest debate if at all possible.
If Labour had become a party of Opposition, Fianna Fail would now be in trouble. I sometimes wonder is there a great conspiracy between FF,FG & Labour.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,477
Firstly, apologies about the lack of a fada in his name. Can't figure out on a iPad how to do that. Mods feel free to amend.

Anyway, we have the polls and now the bye election which show the surgence FF. like them or loathe them. This has happened at a time when FF came from it's lowest ebb and when many thought the road was irrecoverable. So one has to ask has Martin been a great leader or has he been a lucky one ?

He appears to have adopted a policy of almost shyness from the public eye and has let the likes of McGrath take the limelight. That's strikes me as clever as he still reminds people the financial collapse in Ireland which occurred under FFs watch. He has managed to manoeuvre his party to a seeming opposition to many issues which FF introduced in practice or principle, eg, property. tax and paying the bond holders. He seems to have convinced the electorate that FF were pretty much blameless or at least unlucky in timing, and what's impressive is that people now appear to be taking not an awful lot of notice of the govt war cry that they are just fixing FFs mistakes.

On the other hand was he lucky? I mean was the only way up for FF anyway? Were votes just lent to FG and particuarly Labour. Has the govt been so poor and in particular labour that options for the electorate had little choice. Have SF been poor in not exploiting the circumstances enough. Had Barney the Dinosaur been at the helm would FF have resurged?

So what do people think, good, great, average or lucky? Btw, we all know the rehearsed insults by now. Can we stick to genuine honest debate if at all possible.

Also if we had a decent media there would be no way FF would be on the return.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Erasing the names of Cowen and Ahern from the frontline has been pretty elegantly done. What remains of the party in the Dail doesn't equivocate or call back to the good old days or try to hide what happened. By doing so he's made a pretty good job of drawing a line under things (Better than Ed Milliband has in the UK I'd argue) and saying "This is now, this is what we want".

They've done a good job of winking about being eurosceptic (Without actually saying they'd do anything), but apart from that there's not really a lot going on. 2 years into opposition isn't the point where you come out with concrete proposals, it's the point where you hammer at the govt's inadequacies.

IMO Kenny's doing a pretty good job all told, better than expected, but he's hampered by an internally riven Labour party that doesn't know what it wants, incompetence in guys like Reilly and loudmouths in the form of Leo and Lucinda. He's also having to go address social issues (Gay marriage, X Case) that he's clearly uncomfortable with and would prefer to run a mile from.

FF get to point all the above out, as well as posting themselves as the party of the family.

People oughtn't underestimate what happened yesterday. FF in FPV's went from 19.6% in 2011 to 32.9%. Labour went from 21 to 4.6. So of the 16.4% of the vote that Labour lost, FF picked up approx 80% of it. It didn't go to SF (As they dearly hoped for), it went to FF.

There's a lesson there for people. Irish voters have short memories. They always have and they're showing it again.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,477
Erasing the names of Cowen and Ahern from the frontline has been pretty elegantly done. What remains of the party in the Dail doesn't equivocate or call back to the good old days or try to hide what happened. By doing so he's made a pretty good job of drawing a line under things (Better than Ed Milliband has in the UK I'd argue) and saying "This is now, this is what we want".

They've done a good job of winking about being eurosceptic (Without actually saying they'd do anything), but apart from that there's not really a lot going on. 2 years into opposition isn't the point where you come out with concrete proposals, it's the point where you hammer at the govt's inadequacies.

IMO Kenny's doing a pretty good job all told, better than expected, but he's hampered by an internally riven Labour party that doesn't know what it wants, incompetence in guys like Reilly and loudmouths in the form of Leo and Lucinda. He's also having to go address social issues (Gay marriage, X Case) that he's clearly uncomfortable with and would prefer to run a mile from.

FF get to point all the above out, as well as posting themselves as the party of the family.

People oughtn't underestimate what happened yesterday. FF in FPV's went from 19.6% in 2011 to 32.9%. Labour went from 21 to 4.6. So of the 16.4% of the vote that Labour lost, FF picked up approx 80% of it. It didn't go to SF (As they dearly hoped for), it went to FF.

There's a lesson there for people. Irish voters have short memories. They always have and they're showing it again.
here is another lesson: Irish voters have stopped voting, a helping hand to FF?
 

commonman

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
5,357
Erasing the names of Cowen and Ahern from the frontline has been pretty elegantly done. What remains of the party in the Dail doesn't equivocate or call back to the good old days or try to hide what happened. By doing so he's made a pretty good job of drawing a line under things (Better than Ed Milliband has in the UK I'd argue) and saying "This is now, this is what we want".

They've done a good job of winking about being eurosceptic (Without actually saying they'd do anything), but apart from that there's not really a lot going on. 2 years into opposition isn't the point where you come out with concrete proposals, it's the point where you hammer at the govt's inadequacies.

IMO Kenny's doing a pretty good job all told, better than expected, but he's hampered by an internally riven Labour party that doesn't know what it wants, incompetence in guys like Reilly and loudmouths in the form of Leo and Lucinda. He's also having to go address social issues (Gay marriage, X Case) that he's clearly uncomfortable with and would prefer to run a mile from.

FF get to point all the above out, as well as posting themselves as the party of the family.

People oughtn't underestimate what happened yesterday. FF in FPV's went from 19.6% in 2011 to 32.9%. Labour went from 21 to 4.6. So of the 16.4% of the vote that Labour lost, FF picked up approx 80% of it. It didn't go to SF (As they dearly hoped for), it went to FF.

There's a lesson there for people. Irish voters have short memories. They always have and they're showing it again.

But and it is only a but, the next time we go to the polls we will be paying property tax and may be water charges, and there could be 3 more budgets before the next general election.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,640
Martin must obviously have a very strong character OR be devoid of empathy to have been able to stand before the people of a country he ably assisted in steering into the rocks and tell them that it wasn't his fault, or his party's fault.

He probably realises himself he's just the "interim" leader of the party because now that it seems Ireland has contracted nationwide Alzheimer's and have forgotten the sheer corruption, venality and incompetence of FF it's extremely likely that the competition for the top role in FF will hot up because more than a few people will want the kudos of leading FF into the next election and the biggest come back of all time.
 

Windowshopper

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
9,013
I would say that Martin is a canny politician but I don't think he would be good for the country. I remember one newspaper columnist once said that Martin had the demenour of a parish priest that made me chuckle.
 
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