Michael Martin Supports Abortion On Demand Because He Is Afraid FF Will Be Outflanked By Sinn Fein.

Lumpy Talbot

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No
They are more Left wing than the Irish Labour Party.
Almost anyone is more left wing than the remains of the accommodation party. 'Left wing' in Ireland means waiting 'till dark to pick up the brown envelope.
 


Toland

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Almost anyone is more left wing than the remains of the accommodation party. 'Left wing' in Ireland means waiting 'till dark to pick up the brown envelope.
That's a great old bandwagon to jump on. FF are more populist than the Labour Party. I'll give them that. And they're better at it, to boot.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
That bandwagon was constructed and fuelled by the Labour party themselves.
 

GDPR

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Almost anyone is more left wing than the remains of the accommodation party. 'Left wing' in Ireland means waiting 'till dark to pick up the brown envelope.
Nonsense. Just because you are a malcontented failure doesn't give you a right to smear the entire nation.
 

Toland

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That bandwagon was constructed and fuelled by the Labour party themselves.
By refusing to pander to populism, imo. But I'm not going to pull this thread further off topic. FF have flipped on this issue cos they've finally seen the way the wind is blowing, while Labour have opposed the 8th amendment since the word go.

I know, because I remember the abuse and the sheer nastiness of the 1983 campaign. The little group of anti-amendment campaigners I belonged to was roared at, had our tyres let down, had abuse written on our car and were refused admission to various public spaces. We were insulted, blaggarded and denounced, with Fianna Fáil members leading the charge against us.

If there's one thing that innoculated me against the opportunism and populist demagoguery of Fianna Fáil, it was that campaign.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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I think Martin coming out like this was orchestrated and manipulated by the media. Every single news reference to it that I read described the shock of it, the big change it represents, the coming of age and educational process these guys are going through because of the evidence given to the Assembly and Committee etc etc.

But its nonsense? We all knew he was pro-choice, if you didn't all you had to note was that he has Kelleher appointed as FF spokesman on the matter for years and he has always been pro-choice.

Everything is now going to be orchestrated to get this referendum passed, prepare to be brainwashed people!
Jesus wept
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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The public does not give a damn if a party allows a free vote. All they care about is party policy. FF were shaping up as the anti-abortion party but Martin's announcement has changed that. The question is will Martin's endorsement of abortion on demand damage FF in its rural heartlands especially if FG opt for a restricted abortion policy i.e. no mental health criteria. Will rural FF voters switch to FG at the next election or perhaps stay at home and opt out?
Switch to Renua if their principles are that strong
 

razorblade

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I highly doubt anyone becomes pro choice because they're worried about SF in the polls it must simply have been how they really felt all along.
 

Eoin Coir

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I think this is a ploy by Martin to recapture votes in Dublin where he must win if he wants to be in power. Nothing to do with principle or womens health.
 

Half Nelson

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Martin has played right into SF"s hands.

With no prolife party there can be no prolife vote.
Many, esp. older, prolife voters are also strongly supportive of a UI, so, given a choice between toxic pro-abortion parties, many will opt for their second or third agenda.

Voting for pro- abortion SF is no longer barred by conscience.
 

Eoin Coir

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By refusing to pander to populism, imo. But I'm not going to pull this thread further off topic. FF have flipped on this issue cos they've finally seen the way the wind is blowing, while Labour have opposed the 8th amendment since the word go.

I know, because I remember the abuse and the sheer nastiness of the 1983 campaign. The little group of anti-amendment campaigners I belonged to was roared at, had our tyres let down, had abuse written on our car and were refused admission to various public spaces. We were insulted, blaggarded and denounced, with Fianna Fáil members leading the charge against us.

If there's one thing that innoculated me against the opportunism and populist demagoguery of Fianna Fáil, it was that campaign.
it was awful,in parts of NW like Donegal devout RC women were singing hymns outside polling booths, little altars and statues present also, and no one did anything about it. It was a terrible time.

Dont rule out a repeat if AOD up to 12 weeks goes ahead.
 

Toland

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I think this is a ploy by Martin to recapture votes in Dublin where he must win if he wants to be in power. Nothing to do with principle or womens health.
Of course. With Fianna Fáil it was ever so. The 8th itself is a product of Fianna Fáil opportunism. Carried out by the master, CJH, with the sole purpose of wrongfooting Garret Fitzgerald. And it was extremely successful. And all the warnings about legal challenges arising from the amendment, which were the reason Fitzgerald opposed the wording Haughey insisted on, were also to come to pass.
 

Half Nelson

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Of course. With Fianna Fáil it was ever so. The 8th itself is a product of Fianna Fáil opportunism. Carried out by the master, CJH, with the sole purpose of wrongfooting Garret Fitzgerald. And it was extremely successful. And all the warnings about legal challenges arising from the amendment, which were the reason Fitzgerald opposed the wording Haughey insisted on, were also to come to pass.
Just imagine what a Soros-funded pro-abortion mob would have done if the 8th wasn't there to protect mothers and their babies.
 

sic transit

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They see it like any other issue: as a vehicle by which they can return to power.
It's not an election issue. Martin like others is opting for the free vote, free conscience route secure in the knowledge that in the event of a successful repeal vote most of the legislature favour a change. Voters are far more likely to ignore any party making it part of an election. I will say one thing about this week, there's been a remarkable level of maturity about the debate in the chamber.
 

TruthInTheNews

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Martin has played right into SF"s hands.

With no prolife party there can be no prolife vote.
Many, esp. older, prolife voters are also strongly supportive of a UI, so, given a choice between toxic pro-abortion parties, many will opt for their second or third agenda.

Voting for pro- abortion SF is no longer barred by conscience.
Yes. Abortion is no longer a point of difference for FF. They may lose pro-life voters and gain or preserve pro-abortion voters.
 


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