Michael McKevitt

DaveM

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I attacked Cogar for his opposition to the GFA? Cogar said he supports the GFA.

Cogar: ''The murder of thousands of Iraqis and Syrians is not sensationalism.

We need to constantly update our anti terror legislation and leave no loopholes for terrorists.

I am an Irish republican and a democrat and support the GFA''

The ICCI described the Media stories as Media Sensationalism.

Dr Ali Selim: ''The figure was not accurate and wanted to know how the number was drawn up.

He said his members have not noticed any increased surveillance on their activities and said it was a "media sensation.''

Cogar has laughed off the suggestion that he needs to provide evidence or proof of the existence of what he calls 'transnational terrorism'. So without a shred of evidence, we can safely conclude that it does not exist.
You know well what you said. Stop trying to create some alternative scenario that doesn't have you running with the fox and chasing with the hounds.
 


cathalbrugha

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Now we are at the 'whataboutery' stage.

McKevitt is a convicted criminal and his trial is over and he is serving his sentence.

It is very good news that he and the other criminals from Limerick will serve their full sentences.

'Meanwhile' the Irish people are safer tonight - they both are behind bars.
''In Limerick some 30 Republicans, including Sean Glynn, commandeered a Limerick County Council lorry and headed for Bodenstown. They were apprehended at Dunkerrin, County Offaly and subsequently sentenced to prison terms ranging from six to 18 months.

The prisoners were committed to Arbour Hill Military Prison, where the Free State Army ran an exceptionally harsh regime. This included a regime of strict silence, which was brutally enforced. After eight weeks of this the young, naturally cheerful and outgoing Sean Glynn was found dead in his cell on the morning of 13 September - he had taken his own life. Within 24 hours of his death the government had ordered the restoration of a normal regime within the prison.

Glynn was the first republican to die at the hands of a Fianna Fáil government, but unfortunately not the last.''

History will repeat itself.
 

cathalbrugha

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You know well what you said. Stop trying to create some alternative scenario that doesn't have you running with the fox and chasing with the hounds.
I'm not sure you quite understand what's really going here. As a matter of fact, I'm quite certain you don't. I don't think it's actually sinking in. If you are what you say you are, and you support peace in Ireland, this is bad news. Really bad news. The people behind this, are crypto-unionists of the worst sort - They are actually worse than people like Conor Cruise O'Brien. They are political dinosaurs of the worst possible variety. When you start singling people out for having an opposing political view, and start constructing 'new anti-terror legislation', it can only spell one thing - Internment.
 

cathalbrugha

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All members of the EU agreed to pass the legislation and it will be passed. It is better that no member state has a lacuna in anti terror legislation and, with all due respects to the ICCI they and the Irish Indo have no idea if there are any Jihadist here.
Waffle! Lies, lies, and more damned lies.

What they are not telling us -

The Incitement Offence:

The most controversial part of the CECPT is its definition of Public Provocation to Commit a Terrorist Offence. Article 5 of the CECPT defines this as intentionally distributing a message to the public, with the intent to incite the commission of a ‘terrorist offence’, where such conduct, whether or not directly advocating terrorist offences, causes a danger that one or more terrorist offences may be committed.

According to the Irish Times this was agreed in Brussels six years ago, and it has not in fact been agreed upon, and ratified by All members of the EU.

Irish Times - ''The EU council decision was agreed in Brussels almost six years ago on November 26th, 2008. The three new offences were designed to reflect similar offences covered by the Council of Europe Convention on the Prevention of Terrorism, which Ireland signed on October 3rd, 2008."

''The CECPT is open for signature by the member states of the Council of Europe, the European Community, and by non-member states which have participated in its elaboration. It came into force on 1 June 2007 in Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, and Ukraine; as of May 2014 it has been ratified by 32 states. A further 12 states have signed but not ratified the Convention.''

The question is why now, why the deception, the hysteria, the misinformation, and do we the people get to cast a vote on this?
 
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cathalbrugha

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All members of the EU agreed to pass the legislation and it will be passed. It is better that no member state has a lacuna in anti terror legislation and, with all due respects to the ICCI they and the Irish Indo have no idea if there are any Jihadist here.

We have plenty of our own terrorists and this legislation will apply to all of them, which is great news.

It is quite feasible that Jihadist travelled to Iraq and Syria on Irish Passports and the ICCI would not know about them.

Transnational terriorism is reminiscent of the IRA and their good friend Gadaffi - remember that evil man?
The most controversial part of the CECPT is its definition of Public Provocation to Commit a Terrorist Offence. Article 5 of the CECPT defines this as intentionally distributing a message to the public, with the intent to incite the commission of a ‘terrorist offence’, where such conduct, whether or not directly advocating terrorist offences, causes a danger that one or more terrorist offences may be committed.

The Incitement Offence -

Dr Dre: What's up Niggaz? Snoop Dogg - Some Biatch ass weed - Incitement to commit transnational narco-terrorist offences?

Bob Dylan: Hey mister tamboreen come play a song for me - Encouraging people to smoke diamorphine, also known as heroin.?

Dr Dre: You Biatch ass niggaz - Incitement to encourage homophobic murder?

Irish Ballad - Oh ah Up the Ra - Incitement to provoke a terrorist offence?

Will it be considered to be Public Provocation to commit a terrorist offence if a comedian were to crack a joke about niggaz being killed? Will comedians be forced to use politically correct language, when cracking jokes about people on welfare? What happens if the comedian wants to take the piss out of Black South African Immigrants? Will the comedian get 10 years for encouraging transnational terrorist right wing fascism, with links to the Nazi's and Golden Dawn. You could be charged with Incitement to commit genocide against ethnic minorities by use of the word knacker. Inda's a knacker could be misinterpreted by the courts to mean that Inda dresses like a redneck pieball. Ya dirty Orange Bistird could also be misinterpreted, and considered to be Public Provocation. That type of language could be interpreted as a message of support for the opposition to the British National Front. It's so ridiculous you couldn't make it up.

How would the courts deem a slogan saying ''Up The Republic?'' - That could be Plato's Republic, the French Republic, or even the Irish Republic. If the accused were to claim it meant the Irish Republic, that could also mean different things, to 5,000,000 people on the island of Ireland. Would the accused have to say he meant the Irish Socialist Republic of James Connolly or The Republic of Pearse? Will it become illegal to quote poetry? How would the courts interpret a quote such as ''Beware The Risen People'' - One interpretation could be that it's simply a line from Plunkett's Strumpet City. Another interpretation could mean that it comes from the poem penned by the IRA leader called The Rebel.
 

cathalbrugha

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I am an Irish republican and a democrat and support the GFA.
The Good Friday Agreement had a number of positive aspects, such as the concept of the safeguarding of human rights. I fully support all that section of the Good Friday Agreement, which is inclusive of ''the right to free political thought.'' By definition I could be regarded as a supporter of the Good Friday Agreement.

The Good Friday Agreement:

RIGHTS, SAFEGUARDS AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY

Human Rights

1. The parties affirm their commitment to the mutual respect, the civil rights and the religious liberties of everyone in the community. Against the background of the recent history of communal conflict, the parties affirm in particular:

the right of free political thought;
the right to freedom and expression of religion;
the right to pursue democratically national and political aspirations;
the right to seek constitutional change by peaceful and legitimate means;
the right to freely choose oneüs place of residence;
the right to equal opportunity in all social and economic activity, regardless of class, creed, disability, gender or ethnicity;
the right to freedom from sectarian harassment; and
the right of women to full and equal political participation.


I support aspects of the Declaration Of Support(1) and the concept of multi-party negotiations, and again, by definition I could be considered to be a supporter of the Good Friday Agreement, but I believe that the Agreement would have been strengthened by the inclusion of a greater number of parties to the negotiations, such as, but not limited to, the Irish Traveller Movement, alongside cultural organisations such as Conradh na Gaeilge. With well over a hundred years experience in promoting the Irish language, I think Conradh na Gaeilge were in a far greater position than the British to the promotion of the Irish language, and by extension to implement sections 3 & 4 of the Economics, Social & Cultural Issues.

I firmly believe the inclusion, but again, not limited, of other all-island parties, with roots firmly established in all the counties of Ireland, such as the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, the Irish Republican Socialist Party and Republican Sinn Fein, would have added another dimension to the multi-party negotiations, as would the inclusion of the Irish National Congress and Political Prisoner Rights bodies such as Saoirse, who I believe should have sought a complete and unconditional Amnesty for all Political Prisoners and combatants, inclusive of Republicans and British-aligned forces, ranging from the Ulster Volunteer Force, the RUC and the British Army. Broadly speaking that's how I interpreted the concept of a new beginning.

(1).

DECLARATION OF SUPPORT

1. We, the participants in the multi-party negotiations, believe that the agreement we have negotiated offers a truly historic opportunity for a new beginning.

2. The tragedies of the past have left a deep and profoundly regrettable legacy of suffering. We must never forget those who have died or been injured, and their families. But we can best honour them through a fresh start, in which we firmly dedicate ourselves to the achievement of reconciliation, tolerance, and mutual trust, and to the protection and vindication of the human rights of all.

(2).

Economic, Social & Cultural issues:

3. All participants recognise the importance of respect, understanding and tolerance in relation to linguistic diversity, including in Northern Ireland, the Irish language, Ulster-Scots and the languages of the various ethnic communities, all of which are part of the cultural wealth of the island of Ireland.

4. In the context of active consideration currently being given to the UK signing the Council of Europe Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, the British Government will in particular in relation to the Irish language, where appropriate and where people so desire it:

take resolute action to promote the language;
facilitate and encourage the use of the language in speech and writing in public and private life where there is appropriate demand;
seek to remove, where possible, restrictions which would discourage or work against the maintenance or development of the language;
make provision for liaising with the Irish language community, representing their views to public authorities and investigating complaints;
place a statutory duty on the Department of Education to encourage and facilitate Irish medium education in line with current provision for integrated education;
explore urgently with the relevant British authorities, and in co-operation with the Irish broadcasting authorities, the scope for achieving more widespread availability of Teilifis na Gaeilige in Northern Ireland;
seek more effective ways to encourage and provide financial support for Irish language film and television production in Northern Ireland; and
encourage the parties to secure agreement that this commitment will be sustained by a new Assembly in a way which takes account of the desires and sensitivities of the community.

I think sections 3 & 4 of the above, are examples of how the wording of the Agreement is subject to interpretation. How many supporters of the Good Friday Agreement can honestly say they have been actively involved in the promotion of Ulster-Scots? I therefore feel it's intellectually dishonest for people to claim on the one hand that they support the Agreement, but on the other hand, they don't help to promote all aspects of it.


CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES

1. The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:

(i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

(ii) recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland;

I support the concept of 1(1) and 1(2) of the above, subject to minor amendments. I support the concept of the choice of the majority, but only in the context of an all-island vote. I support the concept of Self-determination, but only in the context of an all-island vote.
 
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Beachcomber

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''In Limerick some 30 Republicans, including Sean Glynn, commandeered a Limerick County Council lorry and headed for Bodenstown. They were apprehended at Dunkerrin, County Offaly and subsequently sentenced to prison terms ranging from six to 18 months.

The prisoners were committed to Arbour Hill Military Prison, where the Free State Army ran an exceptionally harsh regime. This included a regime of strict silence, which was brutally enforced. After eight weeks of this the young, naturally cheerful and outgoing Sean Glynn was found dead in his cell on the morning of 13 September - he had taken his own life. Within 24 hours of his death the government had ordered the restoration of a normal regime within the prison.

Glynn was the first republican to die at the hands of a Fianna Fáil government, but unfortunately not the last.''

History will repeat itself.


You're calling for more dead republicans?
 

Beachcomber

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The most controversial part of the CECPT is its definition of Public Provocation to Commit a Terrorist Offence. Article 5 of the CECPT defines this as intentionally distributing a message to the public, with the intent to incite the commission of a ‘terrorist offence’, where such conduct, whether or not directly advocating terrorist offences, causes a danger that one or more terrorist offences may be committed.

I think you'll find that the balaclava wearing clowns at the likes of 32CSM commemoration events are calling for terrorism directed at their neighbours who happen to support the UK. Then you get the likes of Marian Price at the same events indirectly advocating terrorist offences by helping the balaclava wearing clowns out.
 

Beachcomber

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Michael Mc Kevitt is in jail on the word of a paid perjuror.


Meanwhile the leader of the UDA is funded by the Dublin Govt, invited to play golf in the K Club with leading businessmen and politicians gets media training paid my Irish taxpayers.
All the while conducting interviews with the media where he is described as the UDA Commander.

Newshound: Links to daily newspaper articles about Northern Ireland

Mc Kevitt's case is an example of political policing and double standards in the States political courts.
Judges handpicked by the State doing the bidding of the State.


Are you saying that you'd prefer the alleged perjuror to be unpaid?

Would that make it OK then?
 

Beachcomber

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I must say I'm absolutely shocked to see you gloating over someone suffering unnecessarily, and calling for his continued incarceration. Your assessment of the level of threat faced by we the public, is at odds with the views of Senior Counsel:

''Senior Counsel Michael O'Higgins said McKevitt had an impressive array of courses and certificates completed while in Portlaoise Prison.

And he had engaged in prison work including maintenance of the landing, good safety and health and safety.

On any evaluation, he scores very highly, Mr O'Higgins said, and has fulfilled the criteria of engaging with supervised structured prison activities which lead to enhanced remission.

Mr O'Higgins said McKevitt did not have addiction or psychological issues.

He told the court that McKevitt’s protestation of innocence and segregation in the Republican wing of Portlaoise Prison did not remove his entitlement to enhanced remission.''

I think it's revolting how you are trying to make a connection between the unfolding tragedy in the middle east, and claiming that the new legislation is designed to deal with 'national and transnational terrorism.' It's a new low in the appalling history of Irish Media & Journalism, that the death of an Investigative Journalist in the middle east has been used to add credibility and weight to the hyperbole and scaremongering.

Lies, lies and more damned lies.

There is absolutely no evidence of a 'terror threat' coming from the tiny Muslim community in Ireland. None. They've already issued a statement wondering where on earth this story came from, and how it has developed a life of its own. It's borderline State Racism. It's a dangerous path to go down, and will only lead to tragedy and misery.


If Michael McKevitt really is suffering unnecessarily in jail, then he has nobody to blame but himself. He chose to be involved in the RIRA.

Are you really asking anyone to believe that McKevitt wasn't involved in the RIRA?

After he was jailed he became leader of the RIRA group in the jail he ended up in. Then eventually he was expelled from the Real IRA after disputes among the brave boyos.

Could you explain those things for us? Why the RIRA group in that jail agreed to someone who supposedly wasn't in the RIRA taking over leadership of the RIRA prisoners in that jail? And how someone who supposedly wasn't in the RIRA was expelled from the RIRA?

You republicans may be stupid, and incapable of looking at what the actions of people mean versus the idiotic words that people like you say, but the rest of us aren't. McKevitt isn't the first Irish terrorist to claim in court that he has nothing to do with some IRA, and then to suddenly become a member of that very IRA the very day he ends up in jail after conviction. These people are too stupid to see that they are only proving that they lied in court. As soon as they get to jail they start claiming that they are POWs and demonstrate that they were members of the IRA all along.

And the earlier posts on this thread contained many denials that McKevitt had anything to do with he Omagh RIRA bombing, yet in June 2009, McKevitt was one of four men found by a civil court to be liable for the 1998 Omagh bombing in a case taken by relatives of the victims.

Could you explain that for us?
 

Beachcomber

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You can not produce a shred of evidence that there is any threat from the Muslim community in Ireland. None.

Then explain why we need legislation to deal with something that clearly does not exist.


Of course to the likes of you Irish Republicanism terrorism doesn't exist either.

Every IR that ends up in court is claimed by people like you to have been framed.
 

Beachcomber

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Look, every single solitary post involving the Real IRA seems to come down to one thing...Omagh.

Now regardless of what you might think of republicans, the IRA or whoever else, you must be seriously idiotic to believe that the Real IRA intentionally killed the Omagh victims.

Why would they do that? (especially as they were gathering some momentum and popular support at the time), why claim responsibility? (it would make more sense to deny it and leave people blame the Provos), why give a warning? How could you explain all the evidence that suggests MI5/RUC knowledge of the attack?


The worst thing that can be said about the RIRA in relation this attack is that it was either poorly planned by them or else there was merely an accident somewhere along the lines. These men are passionate republicans, they aren't sick freaks who froth at the mouth and get hard-ons while watching holocaust footage as the media would have you believe. There is no way that a bunch of these guys banded together and said "Hey! Lets blow up a load of innocent people, that'll further the cause!"

Now please, this thread is supposed to be about McKevvitts appeal, so please stop changing the subject, and stop changing the subject every single time there is any mention of "dissident" groups.


Why would the Real IRA have done that?

It's because they are IR terrorists, and that's the sort of thing that they do.

They are sick freaks - they didn't care that their bomb could potentially kill a couple of dozen people, and did so.

There is no way that a bunch of these guys banded together and said "Hey! Lets blow up a load of innocent people, that'll further the cause!"

In your sweetie mice world of course you want to believe that. Yet they left bomb after bomb across Northern Ireland. That's the reality. They set that bomb and didn't give a sh*t about how many people may end up dead as a result.
 

Alan Alda

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So McKevitt is an unrepentant nutjob,apparently, perhaps , and he is different to Adams and McGuiness in what way exactly ?
 

Beachcomber

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So McKevitt is an unrepentant nutjob,apparently, perhaps , and he is different to Adams and McGuiness in what way exactly ?
Those other 2 boyos got their faction to surrender,and are now helping to administer British rule in NI.

McKevitt didn't.
 

Beachcomber

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Has anyone here seriously claimed the Real IRA meant to destroy all those people's lives, and their own movement as well, at Omagh?

I think most people familiar with the Troubles understand Omagh was an "accident" in the same way that the Shankill or Enniskillen bombings were, but it was the somewhat inevitable result of a strategy of setting off huge car bombs in public places. One screw-up-- and from the sounds of it there was more than one-- and you can kill quite a few people, even if only intending to take out a building or ruin somebody's weekend.


They did Omagh because they are Irish terrorist sociopaths.

Why do you feel the need to make excuses for them?

They drove a bomb to Omagh and left it in a busy shopping area.

What building are you claiming that they were tying to take out? And if they were only trying to scare people or ruin their weekend, why did they use such a big bomb?

They didn't care how many lives they took out.
 


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