Micheal Martin, another doomed white mouse in the Eoghan Harris laboratory

Prof Honeydew

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-accused-of-dangerous-brexit-move-by-ff-td-1.3179647

WTF has Fianna Fail descended to? This load of snivelling shìte from Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly bears all the hallmarks of Eoghan Harris now dictating the Party's policy on the national question, having captured the vacuous mind of Micheal Martin as he frantically searches Dublin 4 for a focus group to grovel to. It's a damning indictment of how low the party has sunk if the likes of Leo Varadkar can outshine it on the nation's response to Brexit.

Time was when Fianna Fail, of which I was a member for many years, showed more balls than the rest of Dail Eireann put together when facing up to major national and economic crises facing the country. I used to feel genuine pride in the way it faced up to the economic revival 1987, to the search for peace in the early 1990s, to reinstating the ceasefire after its collapse in 1997. I even respected the courage shown by some of the leadership in not running away from the aftermath of the crash and taking the toughest and most significant decisions that allowed the recovery to happen.

That was until an element within the Cabinet or recently departed from it hadn't the guts to associate themselves with the efforts of their colleagues and instead shafted them in early 2011 in order to create an impression that they had nothing to do with the Crash. That same element has now allowed the Party to be hijacked by the most treacherous and pernicious presence ever in Irish politics and this act of supreme cowardice now exposes it to become yet another sacrifice like the Stickies, Labour, the Ulster Unionists and John Bruton's government to the hate-filled agenda driven by Harris's monstrous ego.

Brexit may create difficulties but, like any major challenge, it also creates opportunities for furthering Ireland's national and economic interests. I've no problem with using argument and alternative policies to broaden and deepen our response but retreating to the grovel-speak of not offending the Brits or the Unionists under any circumstances is abrogating our right to have any say in what goes on in our own country.

Forty years ago, that same treacherous, gutless approach was pursued under Jack Lynch, driven by a blind hatred of Republicanism both inside and outside of Fianna Fail that excluded any other response. It's not surprising that the worst of the Troubles occurred during that period.

Under the poisonous influence of Harris, Martin and Donnelly (a personal project of Martin who never had any connection with the Party until he was parachuted into his current position) are attempting to rewind the clock back to the days of despair when the only policy in FF, FG, Labour was to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for everything. Jeez, after almost thirty years since the folly of such an approach was exposed, is there anyone in the Party willing to call time on these charlatans?
 


ne0ica

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In Eoghan Harris world SF are dictating FG policy. Imagine that. The blueshirts are now part of the Pan Nationalist Front.
 

GDPR

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-accused-of-dangerous-brexit-move-by-ff-td-1.3179647

WTF has Fianna Fail descended to? This load of snivelling shìte from Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly bears all the hallmarks of Eoghan Harris now dictating the Party's policy on the national question, having captured the vacuous mind of Micheal Martin as he frantically searches Dublin 4 for a focus group to grovel to. It's a damning indictment of how low the party has sunk if the likes of Leo Varadkar can outshine it on the nation's response to Brexit.

Time was when Fianna Fail, of which I was a member for many years, showed more balls than the rest of Dail Eireann put together when facing up to major national and economic crises facing the country. I used to feel genuine pride in the way it faced up to the economic revival 1987, to the search for peace in the early 1990s, to reinstating the ceasefire after its collapse in 1997. I even respected the courage shown by some of the leadership in not running away from the aftermath of the crash and taking the toughest and most significant decisions that allowed the recovery to happen.

That was until an element within the Cabinet or recently departed from it hadn't the guts to associate themselves with the efforts of their colleagues and instead shafted them in early 2011 in order to create an impression that they had nothing to do with the Crash. That same element has now allowed the Party to be hijacked by the most treacherous and pernicious presence ever in Irish politics and this act of supreme cowardice now exposes it to become yet another sacrifice like the Stickies, Labour, the Ulster Unionists and John Bruton's government to the hate-filled agenda driven by Harris's monstrous ego.

Brexit may create difficulties but, like any major challenge, it also creates opportunities for furthering Ireland's national and economic interests. I've no problem with using argument and alternative policies to broaden and deepen our response but retreating to the grovel-speak of not offending the Brits or the Unionists under any circumstances is abrogating our right to have any say in what goes on in our own country.

Forty years ago, that same treacherous, gutless approach was pursued under Jack Lynch, driven by a blind hatred of Republicanism both inside and outside of Fianna Fail that excluded any other response. It's not surprising that the worst of the Troubles occurred during that period.

Under the poisonous influence of Harris, Martin and Donnelly (a personal project of Martin who never had any connection with the Party until he was parachuted into his current position) are attempting to rewind the clock back to the days of despair when the only policy in FF, FG, Labour was to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for everything. Jeez, after almost thirty years since the folly of such an approach was exposed, is there anyone in the Party willing to call time on these charlatans?
Can't see anything wrong and a lot right in what Donnelly had to say.

Cutting off any solutions before full investigation is just plain stupid, but par for Mr. V's course and there is and can be no benefit in deliberately annoying unionists, unless of course Mr. V sees some short term possible political gain over FF in it for him.

If so, f*ck him, let him carry on with it until he falls over himself, as he surely will.

You'd be best served cooling your jets on this one for a time yet I'd say.
 

SideysGhost

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FF are treacherous scum.

After the fall of Albert Reynolds, the rat Ahern set about quite deliberately purging the party of any remaining nationalist/republican sentiment. Modern FF are less sound on the national question than FG. True FG have their loony Empire wing but they also have their Collins Republican wing, and with FG the Empire nutters are at least right out in the open where we can see them. FF leadsership on the other hand are all snivelling servile slimeballs but dishonestly like to pretend to still be in some way interested in a UI to con the thicker and more inbred of their imbecile supporters.

Vermin, pure and simple, a plague upon Ireland.
 

edwin

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-accused-of-dangerous-brexit-move-by-ff-td-1.3179647

WTF has Fianna Fail descended to? This load of snivelling shìte from Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly bears all the hallmarks of Eoghan Harris now dictating the Party's policy on the national question, having captured the vacuous mind of Micheal Martin as he frantically searches Dublin 4 for a focus group to grovel to. It's a damning indictment of how low the party has sunk if the likes of Leo Varadkar can outshine it on the nation's response to Brexit.

Time was when Fianna Fail, of which I was a member for many years, showed more balls than the rest of Dail Eireann put together when facing up to major national and economic crises facing the country. I used to feel genuine pride in the way it faced up to the economic revival 1987, to the search for peace in the early 1990s, to reinstating the ceasefire after its collapse in 1997. I even respected the courage shown by some of the leadership in not running away from the aftermath of the crash and taking the toughest and most significant decisions that allowed the recovery to happen.

That was until an element within the Cabinet or recently departed from it hadn't the guts to associate themselves with the efforts of their colleagues and instead shafted them in early 2011 in order to create an impression that they had nothing to do with the Crash. That same element has now allowed the Party to be hijacked by the most treacherous and pernicious presence ever in Irish politics and this act of supreme cowardice now exposes it to become yet another sacrifice like the Stickies, Labour, the Ulster Unionists and John Bruton's government to the hate-filled agenda driven by Harris's monstrous ego.

Brexit may create difficulties but, like any major challenge, it also creates opportunities for furthering Ireland's national and economic interests. I've no problem with using argument and alternative policies to broaden and deepen our response but retreating to the grovel-speak of not offending the Brits or the Unionists under any circumstances is abrogating our right to have any say in what goes on in our own country.

Forty years ago, that same treacherous, gutless approach was pursued under Jack Lynch, driven by a blind hatred of Republicanism both inside and outside of Fianna Fail that excluded any other response. It's not surprising that the worst of the Troubles occurred during that period.

Under the poisonous influence of Harris, Martin and Donnelly (a personal project of Martin who never had any connection with the Party until he was parachuted into his current position) are attempting to rewind the clock back to the days of despair when the only policy in FF, FG, Labour was to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for everything. Jeez, after almost thirty years since the folly of such an approach was exposed, is there anyone in the Party willing to call time on these charlatans?
I think you're way off beam here.

For a start, the gist of Donnelly's response on Brexit was that the govt should be assessing all available optinos and keeping the information to itself depending on tactics/diplomacy. I fail to see what's wrong with that approach and would suggest you maybe didn't read the article carefully enough. The bit about not unnececesarily annoying the unionists isn't bad advice these days given their veto on the British govt Brexit policy.

I personally get a bit annoyed with Martin's obsession with SF too but there is a big difference between being anti SF and being anti Republican. There are plenty of good republicans in the party and the paper being prepared on a United Ireland is a good place to kick on from.

If we're ever going to progress to a UI people need to work together. There is too much animosity at times between FF and SF (much of it from the latter I would say)
 

edwin

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FF are treacherous scum.

After the fall of Albert Reynolds, the rat Ahern set about quite deliberately purging the party of any remaining nationalist/republican sentiment. Modern FF are less sound on the national question than FG. True FG have their loony Empire wing but they also have their Collins Republican wing, and with FG the Empire nutters are at least right out in the open where we can see them. FF leadsership on the other hand are all snivelling servile slimeballs but dishonestly like to pretend to still be in some way interested in a UI to con the thicker and more inbred of their imbecile supporters.

Vermin, pure and simple, a plague upon Ireland.
Another classic from this site's premier ranter and raver. You may well be an intelligent guy behind it all but your posts make you look about as educated and well mannered as Johnny Adair's pup.
 

SideysGhost

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Another classic from this site's premier ranter and raver. You may well be an intelligent guy behind it all but your posts make you look about as educated and well mannered as Johnny Adair's pup.
Zero tolerance for lying FFailure scumbags. FFailures like you need to be told to your faces loud and often that you are everything that is worst about Ireland. Shameless opportunist greasy-palmed thieving corrupt inveterate liars and traitors. FF have nothing to offer, and any cretin that still supports these sleveens, shoneens and gombeens is either too damn Stupid to be allowed to vote; or is in on one the myriad FF scams leeching off the people.
 

edwin

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Zero tolerance for lying FFailure scumbags. FFailures like you need to be told to your faces loud and often that you are everything that is worst about Ireland. Shameless opportunist greasy-palmed thieving corrupt inveterate liars and traitors. FF have nothing to offer, and any cretin that still supports these sleveens, shoneens and gombeens is either too damn Stupid to be allowed to vote; or is in on one the myriad FF scams leeching off the people.
:lol: Yet another classic. You never fail to disappoint in your idiotic deluded ravings. Nothing, NOTHING, I've seen in your posts would lead me to believe you are well placed to question anybody else's intelligence. Thankfully we'll have a much better chance of preventing southerners going all West Brit with the likes of you on the other side of the world. Aggressive, bile spewing hate is really more of a loyalist trait though.
 

Henry94.

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The OP is dead right. FF now see defeating Sinn Fein as their only political objective and every interest including the national interest is secondary to that objective. The problems with that strategy are obvious. It is largely irrelevant to the kind of middle-class voters who will choose between FF and FG. Leo will be free to address them while Michael fights it out with SF.

It is also a battle FF can't win the way they are trying to win it. Having the Sunday Independent in your corner won't cut much ice on the ground where SF have a young hard-working party with far more active members than FF.

The only thing keeping FF alive is their traditional vote and that is largely an old vote. A lot of it is also a republican vote and it's not happy with the Harris influence. It's a very risky strategy.
 
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Analyzer

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No. The maFFia head honcho Meehaul is not taking orders from OwnAr5e.

Though he appears a bigger fan of the nEU empire than even Jean Claude Drunker.
 

Fr. Hank Tree

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I think you're way off beam here.

For a start, the gist of Donnelly's response on Brexit was that the govt should be assessing all available optinos and keeping the information to itself depending on tactics/diplomacy. I fail to see what's wrong with that approach and would suggest you maybe didn't read the article carefully enough. The bit about not unnececesarily annoying the unionists isn't bad advice these days given their veto on the British govt Brexit policy.
Not really. They're the ones leaving and they haven't even bothered to look into the solution. Why should we be the fools who invest time and resources into exploring a policy we don't even agree with when the others are too lazy to even meet us half way and move beyond aspirational platitudes? It's a matter of principle. Time for FF to don the green jersey.
If we're ever going to progress to a UI people need to work together. There is too much animosity at times between FF and SF (much of it from the latter I would say)
At the top level, the animosity primarily comes from MM. Maybe there is some logic to it (in a narrow-minded FF-centric way) but it comes across as pathological.
 

Mad as Fish

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There is a large slice of an elemental truth in the OP that goes beyond the personalities involved and that is the government appears to have abandoned governing if favour of pursuing their hatred of others. FF and FG are as bad as each other, they both appear to have thrown up their hands and ran away to indulge in petty squabbles and nasty little hate fests, certainly if their supporters on here are anything to go by. But away from that there is still the sense that the government has abdicated from its responsibilities and has just let the civil service run amok, or simply assume the EU will sort it all out. There is no ethical guidance, no vision, sense of control or power over the various organs of state, only shouting from the sidelines.

Perhaps they have come to realise that Ireland is corrupt beyond redemption and they haven't the ethics to appreciate the damage that causes, the fight in them to correct it or they too are part of it. Whichever it is there is a notable sense of detachment from the governance of the country by those elected to govern it, whether that harks back to the consequences of 2011 as suggested by the OP will no doubt fill plenty of pages, but in the meantime Ireland drifts rudderless in the world's storms of national and international events.
 

GDPR

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At the top level, the animosity primarily comes from MM. Maybe there is some logic to it (in a narrow-minded FF-centric way) but it comes across as pathological.
SF need to be fought, every inch of every way, they're not republicans, never have been, they're physical force narrow minded nationalists and still a fair number of them are little short of thugs with it.

Not that its a good reason for it, but even from a narrow party political pov 86% of the electorate don't vote for them and that's just about the biggest pool there is.

Donnelly is correct here, whether unionists get up your nose or not.
 
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GDPR

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Zero tolerance for lying FFailure scumbags. FFailures like you need to be told to your faces loud and often that you are everything that is worst about Ireland. Shameless opportunist greasy-palmed thieving corrupt inveterate liars and traitors. FF have nothing to offer, and any cretin that still supports these sleveens, shoneens and gombeens is either too damn Stupid to be allowed to vote; or is in on one the myriad FF scams leeching off the people.
The voice of Sidewinder, from the sane & honourable side of SF and with the record to prove it.
 

statsman

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The key to this is a fear of an FG/SF coalition after the next GE, bases almost solely on the need for a coherent position on Brexit. If that were to happen, SF would be seen to be moving to the centre, just in to the position that FF claim, which would, of course, be an existential threat to FF. So, the strategy is to call into question FG's policy , effectively aligning the part of Dev with the party of Paisley.

Good luck selling that one, lads.
 

GDPR

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FF takes a position, sure only a matter of time before the volte face eh.
 

GDPR

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:D

There's delusion and then there's that.
I'm not so sure. In the 1950s a party very similar to what the Shinners are now, called Clann Na Phoblacta, went into coalition with Fine Gael even though they had an armed wing existing in Northern Ireland that carried out a string of attacks. Both parties are quite power hungry and united around what people on here often foolishly call "Cultural Marxism". If they did go into power with FG though it would see in the end of the Shinners in the Republic of Ireland.
 

RodShaft

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:lol: Yet another classic. You never fail to disappoint in your idiotic deluded ravings. Nothing, NOTHING, I've seen in your posts would lead me to believe you are well placed to question anybody else's intelligence. Thankfully we'll have a much better chance of preventing southerners going all West Brit with the likes of you on the other side of the world. Aggressive, bile spewing hate is really more of a loyalist trait though.
The truth hurts Edwin. FF became a loose collection of fraudsters years ago,
 


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