Micheal Martin, another doomed white mouse in the Eoghan Harris laboratory

GDPR

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I'm not so sure. In the 1950s a party very similar to what the Shinners are now, called Clann Na Phoblacta, went into coalition with Fine Gael even though they had an armed wing existing in Northern Ireland that carried out a string of attacks. Both parties are quite power hungry and united around what people on here often foolishly call "Cultural Marxism". If they did go into power with FG though it would see in the end of the Shinners in the Republic of Ireland.
Which is but one of the reasons it won't happen. They would go in with FF, but only to stab them in the back the first serious chance they got, which is in its turn but one of the reasons why that won't happen either.
 


hammer

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-accused-of-dangerous-brexit-move-by-ff-td-1.3179647

WTF has Fianna Fail descended to? This load of snivelling shìte from Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly bears all the hallmarks of Eoghan Harris now dictating the Party's policy on the national question, having captured the vacuous mind of Micheal Martin as he frantically searches Dublin 4 for a focus group to grovel to. It's a damning indictment of how low the party has sunk if the likes of Leo Varadkar can outshine it on the nation's response to Brexit.

Time was when Fianna Fail, of which I was a member for many years, showed more balls than the rest of Dail Eireann put together when facing up to major national and economic crises facing the country. I used to feel genuine pride in the way it faced up to the economic revival 1987, to the search for peace in the early 1990s, to reinstating the ceasefire after its collapse in 1997. I even respected the courage shown by some of the leadership in not running away from the aftermath of the crash and taking the toughest and most significant decisions that allowed the recovery to happen.

That was until an element within the Cabinet or recently departed from it hadn't the guts to associate themselves with the efforts of their colleagues and instead shafted them in early 2011 in order to create an impression that they had nothing to do with the Crash. That same element has now allowed the Party to be hijacked by the most treacherous and pernicious presence ever in Irish politics and this act of supreme cowardice now exposes it to become yet another sacrifice like the Stickies, Labour, the Ulster Unionists and John Bruton's government to the hate-filled agenda driven by Harris's monstrous ego.

Brexit may create difficulties but, like any major challenge, it also creates opportunities for furthering Ireland's national and economic interests. I've no problem with using argument and alternative policies to broaden and deepen our response but retreating to the grovel-speak of not offending the Brits or the Unionists under any circumstances is abrogating our right to have any say in what goes on in our own country.

Forty years ago, that same treacherous, gutless approach was pursued under Jack Lynch, driven by a blind hatred of Republicanism both inside and outside of Fianna Fail that excluded any other response. It's not surprising that the worst of the Troubles occurred during that period.

Under the poisonous influence of Harris, Martin and Donnelly (a personal project of Martin who never had any connection with the Party until he was parachuted into his current position) are attempting to rewind the clock back to the days of despair when the only policy in FF, FG, Labour was to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for everything. Jeez, after almost thirty years since the folly of such an approach was exposed, is there anyone in the Party willing to call time on these charlatans?
Sure dont you know FF would do the total opposite to FG and always be right.

When it is seen though that FG made the right decisions FF will row in and say they supported the strategy all along.

FF try to position themselves on both sides of the argument :) so as to hoover up votes !!
 

GDPR

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:lol: Yet another classic. You never fail to disappoint in your idiotic deluded ravings. Nothing, NOTHING, I've seen in your posts would lead me to believe you are well placed to question anybody else's intelligence. Thankfully we'll have a much better chance of preventing southerners going all West Brit with the likes of you on the other side of the world. Aggressive, bile spewing hate is really more of a loyalist trait though.
Sidey's posting style is very much that of the glue sniffing type of "Pentecostalist" "Loyalist Pastor" (think George Seawright). I have been saying that for some time.
 

GDPR

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Sure dont you know FF would do the total opposite to FG and always be right.

When it is seen though that FG made the right decisions FF will row in and say they supported the strategy all along.

FF try to position themselves on both sides of the argument :) so as to hoover up votes !!
The Flip Flop party, why would you expect anything less?
 

GDPR

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Sidey's posting style is very much that of the glue sniffing type of "Pentecostalist" "Loyalist Pastor" (think George Seawright). I have been saying that for some time.
It gets him "likes" from the daily Mirror brigade and when you're as desperate as Sidewinder is, that has to have some value.
 

statsman

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:D

There's delusion and then there's that.
At this stage, I think it's the most likely of all the unlikely possible outcomes of the next GE.
 

GDPR

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At this stage, I think it's the most likely of all the unlikely possible outcomes of the next GE.
Well look, who can really say, but if two political parties really want to commit mutual suicide, who am I................
 

statsman

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I'm not so sure. In the 1950s a party very similar to what the Shinners are now, called Clann Na Phoblacta, went into coalition with Fine Gael even though they had an armed wing existing in Northern Ireland that carried out a string of attacks. Both parties are quite power hungry and united around what people on here often foolishly call "Cultural Marxism". If they did go into power with FG though it would see in the end of the Shinners in the Republic of Ireland.
Which is but one of the reasons it won't happen. They would go in with FF, but only to stab them in the back the first serious chance they got, which is in its turn but one of the reasons why that won't happen either.
Brexit changes everything. Time to wake up and smell the continental roast.
 

statsman

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Well look, who can really say, but if two political parties really want to commit mutual suicide, who am I................
The gamble is between taking unusual measures and trying to steer the country through the greatest crisis since the foundation of the state, or fixing potholes and hoping Brexit goes away. I think we all know which option FF will go for.
 

GDPR

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The gamble is between taking unusual measures and trying to steer the country through the greatest crisis since the foundation of the state, or fixing potholes and hoping Brexit goes away. I think we all know which option FF will go for.
Well deliberately NOT looking at potential solutions is certainly an unusual measure and if you & Leo think that's the way to go, I'll just stay here and see you again on the way back.
 

GDPR

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It's reasonable to speculate and Brexit is the big game in town and will be for a while. Will FF prop up FG again? Will FG prop up a FF government? Will either say, no, we will go into a coalition with another, that being SF given likley numbers? Where will smaller parties and Indo's be in all this?
 

statsman

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Well NOT looking at potential solutions is certainly an unusual measure and if you & Leo think that's the way to go, I'll just stay here and see you again on the way back.
Licking the DUP's backside may seem like a solution from where you sit, but then again, look where you're sitting.
 

GDPR

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Licking the DUP's backside may seem like a solution from where you sit, but then again, look where you're sitting.
Somewhat missing the point there, but hey, if I was in your position I might even try that myself.
 

hollandia

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Well deliberately NOT looking at potential solutions is certainly an unusual measure and if you & Leo think that's the way to go, I'll just stay here and see you again on the way back.
I think the case is that they've looked at one potential solution - not point-blank refused to consider other solutions - and said "No, thanks". Secondly, it is not for Ireland to propose solutions, it is for the UK to propose as part of their Brexit negotiations - in fact the border is one of the three key issues. Ireland, and the EU, are rightly adopting an attitude of "You broke it, you own it."
 

hammer

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It's reasonable to speculate and Brexit is the big game in town and will be for a while. Will FF prop up FG again? Will FG prop up a FF government? Will either say, no, we will go into a coalition with another, that being SF given likley numbers? Where will smaller parties and Indo's be in all this?
Lets be honest about it. There aint going to be much movement in the polls.

FG will be 30-33%
FF will be 30-33%
SF IRA 13-18%
Lab 6%

It could be 2021 before SF IRA are as issue again for FF.
 

irish_bob

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The OP is dead right. FF now see defeating Sinn Fein as their only political objective and every interest including the national interest is secondary to that objective. The problem with that strategy are obvious. It is largely irrelevant to the kind of middle-class voters who will choose between FF and FG. Leo will be free to address them while Michael fights it out with SF.

It is also a battle FF can't win the way they are trying to win it. Having the Sunday Independent in your corner won't cut much ice on the ground where SF have a young hard-working party with far more active members than FF.

The only thing keeping FF alive is their traditional vote and that is largely an old vote. A lot of it is also a republican vote and it's not happy with the Harris influence. It's a very risky strategy.
yes and under martin , FF have gone all PC liberal , this wont do them any good with their traditional base and as if actual PC liberals would vote FF

martin is a terrible leader , has a spine of jelly and is liable to flip flop on anything if he thinks it looks like what rte or the irish times would want
 

statsman

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Lets be honest about it. There aint going to be much movement in the polls.

FG will be 30-33%
FF will be 30-33%
SF IRA 13-18%
Lab 6%

It could be 2021 before SF IRA are as issue again for FF.
It really depends on how those numbers actually pan out and are converted into seats. I'd expect FG to get candidate selection a bit better next time around, and SF may well pick up a couple of extra seats. The Indos look likely to suffer as their votes go 'home' to larger partie, especially if Brexit is the big issue; the Indos don't do big issues. So small shifts in the polls could result in significant enough shifts in the balance of power.
 

Tawdy

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-accused-of-dangerous-brexit-move-by-ff-td-1.3179647

WTF has Fianna Fail descended to? This load of snivelling shìte from Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly bears all the hallmarks of Eoghan Harris now dictating the Party's policy on the national question, having captured the vacuous mind of Micheal Martin as he frantically searches Dublin 4 for a focus group to grovel to. It's a damning indictment of how low the party has sunk if the likes of Leo Varadkar can outshine it on the nation's response to Brexit.

Time was when Fianna Fail, of which I was a member for many years, showed more balls than the rest of Dail Eireann put together when facing up to major national and economic crises facing the country. I used to feel genuine pride in the way it faced up to the economic revival 1987, to the search for peace in the early 1990s, to reinstating the ceasefire after its collapse in 1997. I even respected the courage shown by some of the leadership in not running away from the aftermath of the crash and taking the toughest and most significant decisions that allowed the recovery to happen.

That was until an element within the Cabinet or recently departed from it hadn't the guts to associate themselves with the efforts of their colleagues and instead shafted them in early 2011 in order to create an impression that they had nothing to do with the Crash. That same element has now allowed the Party to be hijacked by the most treacherous and pernicious presence ever in Irish politics and this act of supreme cowardice now exposes it to become yet another sacrifice like the Stickies, Labour, the Ulster Unionists and John Bruton's government to the hate-filled agenda driven by Harris's monstrous ego.

Brexit may create difficulties but, like any major challenge, it also creates opportunities for furthering Ireland's national and economic interests. I've no problem with using argument and alternative policies to broaden and deepen our response but retreating to the grovel-speak of not offending the Brits or the Unionists under any circumstances is abrogating our right to have any say in what goes on in our own country.

Forty years ago, that same treacherous, gutless approach was pursued under Jack Lynch, driven by a blind hatred of Republicanism both inside and outside of Fianna Fail that excluded any other response. It's not surprising that the worst of the Troubles occurred during that period.

Under the poisonous influence of Harris, Martin and Donnelly (a personal project of Martin who never had any connection with the Party until he was parachuted into his current position) are attempting to rewind the clock back to the days of despair when the only policy in FF, FG, Labour was to blame Sinn Fein and the IRA for everything. Jeez, after almost thirty years since the folly of such an approach was exposed, is there anyone in the Party willing to call time on these charlatans?
Ya do know ya could have just said, " Fianna Fail don`t care who they fúck over in their quest for power "

I just don`t get why a whiner like you is so surprised by that ?

Is it because they have an aversion to that other ex- Fianna Fail member, Mary Lou McDonald, not getting a fair hearing to her application to rejoin Fianna Fail in the next government?
 


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