Mick Wallace declared bankrupt

Lumpy Talbot

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100%. People b1tch and moan about the high interest rates in Irish banks but fail to realise the reason for those high interest rates - defaulters like Wallace and the politicians who held the banks back for so many years (still doing it to an extent I believe) from doing their business. I wonder how quickly the banks would have recovered if allowed to repossess after three consecutive missed payments as per the usual terms and conditions.
Interest rates have nothing whatsoever to do with mortgage defaults or mortgages becoming 'non-performing'. in an economy like Ireland's interest rates domestically are set at base level anyway by international economics and very little to do with Ireland's internal economy.

We lost what little control we had over interest rates when we joined the Euro and became subject to the politics at that level (ie Germany).
 


stanley

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I wonder how quickly the banks would have recovered if allowed to repossess after three consecutive missed payments as per the usual terms and conditions.

Because of the house prices collapse around the Celtic Tiger, there were no buyers about and anyone with money was waiting for prices to continue collapsing, banks had no control on market conditions, their power over borrowers eroded, thereon had to be saved by the Govt and end up selling mortgage bundles to US vulture funds, who in fairness, bottomed out the market.
 

stanley

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Betson

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Ryan has cleverly sidestepped this condition so far and now going down the PIA route.
And successful so far , hard to understand how the house has not been repossessed by now . He admits not paying the mortgage in years and that he cannot pay the mortgage payments now either but still wants to stay in the house because that is what his family has become accustomed to.

He was offered a deal where all his debts would be written off if he vacated the house , media reports commented that financial experts said this was an extremely good offer considering the amount of debt the financial institution he is currently in.

You would think he would just move out an start again debt free , the pressure and strain must be huge on the family in this situation.

But he is sticking at it and may well end up keeping the house he acknowledges he cannot afford.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Interest rates have nothing whatsoever to do with mortgage defaults or mortgages becoming 'non-performing'. in an economy like Ireland's interest rates domestically are set at base level anyway by international economics and very little to do with Ireland's internal economy.

We lost what little control we had over interest rates when we joined the Euro and became subject to the politics at that level (ie Germany).
You can't really believe that the banks don't pass on the cost of those who don't pay and don't vacate the property?

Honest people who pay their mortgages must also pay for the parasites who don't.
 

Baron von Biffo

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And successful so far , hard to understand how the house has not been repossessed by now .
Because this is Ireland. Mortgages and rent are regarded as optional payments. The law gives extraordinary protections to those who decide they won't pay but won't vacate the property.

We really need the Revenue Commissioners to start taxing the benefit such people enjoy as a result of living rent and mortgage free.
 

stanley

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You can't really believe that the banks don't pass on the cost of those who don't pay and don't vacate the property?

Honest people who pay their mortgages must also pay for the parasites who don't.
Am inclined to disagree when banks finally get vacant possession they hammer the mortgage holder with everything they can, late payment fees, legal costs, debt collection costs, A/C out of order costs, everything they can legally levy.

They cannot really level bad debts costs onto existing honest mortgage holders, particularly as Govt provides them with major digout/guarantor.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Am inclined to disagree when banks finally get vacant possession they hammer the mortgage holder with everything they can, late payment fees, legal costs, debt collection costs, A/C out of order costs, everything they can legally levy.

They cannot really level bad debts costs onto existing honest mortgage holders, particularly as Govt provides them with major digout/guarantor.
We have the highest mortgage interest rates in the EU and that's due in large measure to the way we cosset defaulters.


When, after years of costly proceedings, the banks finally gain possession they may be able to get judgements against the defaulters but the likelihood of recovering any of the debt is tiny.
 

Watcher2

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Interest rates have nothing whatsoever to do with mortgage defaults or mortgages becoming 'non-performing'. in an economy like Ireland's interest rates domestically are set at base level anyway by international economics and very little to do with Ireland's internal economy.

We lost what little control we had over interest rates when we joined the Euro and became subject to the politics at that level (ie Germany).
I am OF COURSE talking about variable mortgage interest rates. How did you not realise this? My bad I guess so apologies.
 

Watcher2

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Because of the house prices collapse around the Celtic Tiger, there were no buyers about and anyone with money was waiting for prices to continue collapsing, banks had no control on market conditions, their power over borrowers eroded, thereon had to be saved by the Govt and end up selling mortgage bundles to US vulture funds, who in fairness, bottomed out the market.
Ummm, demand for housing has been above supply for many years now so your post rings hollow.
 

Watcher2

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Am inclined to disagree when banks finally get vacant possession they hammer the mortgage holder with everything they can, late payment fees, legal costs, debt collection costs, A/C out of order costs, everything they can legally levy.

They cannot really level bad debts costs onto existing honest mortgage holders, particularly as Govt provides them with major digout/guarantor.
But they can levy their carrying costs onto paying customer though increased mortgage rates. in order to lend out mortgages, the banks borrow on the short term markets and lend this money to the long term mortgage market. They have to fund that same short term lender(s) which, until recently, was higher and so they had to levy the carrying costs on paying customers. This continued for many years and they got away with it and so continue to do it and are making healthy profits again as a result. Butt hey are also precarious now like so many of the european banks so the shafting of the ordinary punter continues unabated.

The banks project their carrying costs on their books and balance that against the income they are relatively certain they will receive. For all the Wallaces, Joe Payer needs to fund the Wallace defaults.
 

stanley

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Ummm, demand for housing has been above supply for many years now so your post rings hollow.
I take your point that demand now exceeds supply, but the banks are retaliating from the past by demanding hefty deposits for mortgages and also being stricter on multiple income rules or maybe fairer to say obeying CB rules on same.
 

Watcher2

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I take your point that demand now exceeds supply, but the banks are retaliating from the past by demanding hefty deposits for mortgages and also being stricter on multiple income rules or maybe fairer to say obeying CB rules on same.
Correct and those CB rules have been in place for a number of years now and lagged the soaring house prices. You do remember that toxic minister for finance, M Noonan who declared he wanted house prices to increase and government policy has ever since (probably before) been to ensure that happened. Lots of money spent on announcing hollow initiatives and house building plans etc etc. but no effect. They even introduced a huge demand side initiative when supply was on the ground - the help to buy scheme. Do they call it Abhaile or some such?

Disgraceful carryon
 

stanley

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Correct and those CB rules have been in place for a number of years now and lagged the soaring house prices. You do remember that toxic minister for finance, M Noonan who declared he wanted house prices to increase and government policy has ever since (probably before) been to ensure that happened. Lots of money spent on announcing hollow initiatives and house building plans etc etc. but no effect. They even introduced a huge demand side initiative when supply was on the ground - the help to buy scheme. Do they call it Abhaile or some such?

Disgraceful carryon
Yes it was dreadful carry-on, but somehow Irish Govts adapt, be it lower corporate tax rates than anywhere else, not wanting to take 13bn off Apple, the growth and growth of Facebook/Google feasting on the property burnout of the Celtic Tiger, if Brexit happens the influx from London will be huge driving all property prices sky high.

Instead of selling property to each other, it is now flogged to rich foreign entities and individuals could be in 10 years Govt will seek to roll over the foreigners, Paddy covets what others have.
 


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